Using Multiple Insteon KeypadLinc Switches Together

DIY

Member
All,
 
I have another relatively easy question that I hope someone can provide a fairly easy answer to. I have a very simple setup in my kitchen in which I've replaced 2 standard switches that drive 2 separate under-cupboard lights and I've replaced them both with Insteon KeypadLinc 6-button switches (2487S, v.41). So essentially KPL-1 is wired inline with Light-1 and KPL-2 is wired inline with Light-2. I also have an ISY994i.
 
In the ISY I've created 3 scenes as follows:
 
Scene-1 (All Lights)
KPL-1: Controller
KPL-2: Controller
 
Scene-2 (Light-1 Only)
KPL-1-A: Controller
KPL-2-A: Controller
KPL-1: Responder
 
Scene-3 (Light-2 Only)
KPL-1-B: Controller
KPL-2-B: Controller
KPL-2: Responder
 
Hopefuly the above is fairly clear. Basically, if I press the big 'On' button on either KPL then BOTH lights come on which is what I want. If I press 'A' on either KPL then Light-1 comes on and if I press button 'B' on either KPL then Light 2 comes on. The lights can be toggled on and off in this way fairly well.
 
But sometimes, if for example I turn on button A on KPL-1 and then press 'On' on KPL-2 then the LED for button A on KPL-1 remains lit even though now both lights are on. Pressing A on KPL-1 again turns off the LED but has no effect on the lights which kind of makes sense but I'd like to see it that the buttons on either KPL have the effect of being exclusive so if I press 'A' on either KPL then it overrides any other state and turns on Light 1 and also lights up the LEDs for 'A' on both KPLs. Likewise, if I press 'B' it should light up Light-2, plus both button 'B' LEDs and shut off all other LEDs.
 
So my question for the forum is, do I need to create a master program that does all of this for me and if so is there a good example that you can point me to? I've tried the Button Grouping and Button Toggle modes but these don't appear to accomplish what I'm looking for.
 
Thanks in advance for any help or pointers you can provide. I've done some searching here and elsewhere but didn't have much luck finding a scenario similar to this one.
 
I believe you have to add more responders to your scenes, for example scene 1 has to turn buttons A and B off (on level 0%) if you want it to do that.  If you want button A to turn button B off then do something similar there.  But the ON button will always be lit if the light connected to that KPL is on.  It is possible to instead use a program.  You'll get more help on the ISY forum.
 
Personally how I would set it up is have KPL-1-A linked with KPL-2 and KPL-2-A linked with KPL-1.  Then I would write a program so that a fast on/off (double tap) on the large buttons turns on and off both lights (and button A's) but otherwise they are controlled by single buttons.  But that is just personal preference and to use as few buttons as possible.  Also there may be a small delay for the second light to come on when using a program which may or may not bother you.
 
But sometimes, if for example I turn on button A on KPL-1 and then press 'On' on KPL-2 then the LED for button A on KPL-1 remains lit even though now both lights are on
Only sometimes?  Not always?  What do you want to happen when you press KPL-2 ON when KPL-1-A is already on?  Do you want KPL-1-A to go off?
 
Pressing A on KPL-1 again turns off the LED but has no effect on the lights
Given your scenes, I would expect that turning off button A would turn of KPL-1 main.  Does this not happen?
 
I'd like to see it that the buttons on either KPL have the effect of being exclusive so if I press 'A' on either KPL then it overrides any other state and turns on Light 1 and also lights up the LEDs for 'A' on both KPLs.
No problem.  Make your scene 2: 
 
KPL-1-A: Controller
KPL-2-A: Controller
KPL-1: Responder
KPL-1-B: Responder (on level set to zero, or off)
KPL-2-B: Responder (on level set to zero, or off)
KPL-2: Responder (on level set to zero, or off)
 
 
Make your scene 3:
KPL-1-B: Controller
KPL-2-B: Controller
KPL-2: Responder
KPL-1: Responder (on level set to zero, or off)
KPL-1-A: Responder (on level set to zero, or off)
KPL-2-A: Responder (on level set to zero, or off)
 
 
Keep in mind that if button A or B is ON, and you toggle it off, ALL lights will go off.  Is this what you want?  Or...would you rather set this up in such a way that either button A or B is lit, but cannot have both off? What do you want to happen to buttons A and B when you press the Primary buttons, either on or off?
 
So my question for the forum is, do I need to create a master program
Yes, you could do this with a program, as well, but I believe scenes would be better.
 
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I will look at adding additional responders and that might help a bit. Sorry if my original post was at all unclear. Let me try to re-clarify. This seems fairly simply in my own mind but I'm probably not conveying it properly.
 
Basically what I think I want is as follows...
If I press 'ON' on either KPL-1 or KPL-2 then I want both Lights to come on and I want both KPL's ON button LEDs to light up and I want ALL other LEDs to shut off.
If I press either KPL-1-A or KPL-2-A then I want only Light-1 to come on or turn off. All other LEDs and lights should turn off so only button 'A' is lit on both KPLs.
Similar for button 'B' on both KPLs.
 
Having written the above, though. I'm starting to realize how this might actually not be the ideal configuration but if I got something like the above working I could probably tweak it from there. My original concept was almost like the 2 KPLs would be virtually linked together so pressing any button on one would be exactly the same as pressing the same button on the other one as though they were effectively just one KPL controller. I think I'd still like to see it this way such that the "state" you see by looking at either KPL is always the same. I do see now, though, that there is potential ambiguity as to how the 3 virtual buttons might interact with each other. My original concept was that all 3 virtual buttons (A, B, and On/Off) would be mutually exclusive and I think this still makes sense.. for now. :)
 
Sorry if my original post was at all unclear.
 I don't think it was unclear.  Rather, incomplete.
 
Basically what I think I want is as follows...
Your description is clear.  However, I continue to wonder if you have considered how you want your system to respond when you press the OFF buttons, or when you toggle OFF one of the secondary buttons, or whether you want these buttons to be in toggle mode.  Unfortunately, the KPL main button must be either illuminated ON or OFF, so it is not possible to have neither lit, ever.  Given this, do you want pressing buttons A or B to turn OFF the main button? 
 
Making a few assumptions, and based upon your clarification, I suggest updating scenes 2 and 3 as I originally suggested, but also updating scene 1 as follows:
 
Scene-1 (All Lights)
KPL-1: Controller
KPL-2: Controller
KPL-1-A (responder, ON level set to zero)
KPL-1-B (responder, ON level set to zero)
KPL-2-A (responder, ON level set to zero)
KPL-2-B (responder, ON level set to zero)
 
Oberkc,
 
With your help and some interactive troubleshooting I think I now have this working the way I want it to. In Summary:
 
'ON' on either KPL turns both lights on.
'ON' on either KPL-A turns Light-1 on.
'ON' on either KPL-B turns Light-2 on.
'Off' on either KPL turns everything off.
Toggling between states (i.e. from 'ON' to 'A' to B') has the desired effect and basically takes turns the appropriate lights on and off and sets the various LEDs correctly.
 
I think I'm in the desired state now. I will work with this for a few days and see if any odd behavior crops up. One of my issues that was causing me grief was that I'd previously made some changes in the Button Groupings so once I reset those things started making a bit more sense. I'll report back on this thread if I run into any more issues.
 
Now to post one more question on another Insteon topic. Hopefully my last for a little while. Thanks again for all your help. :)
 
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