Vista 15P upgrade project gone wild

[LabPaddy]

Long time lurker here. 
 
My new construction home has a Vista 15P with about 34 wired sensors for the windows and doors and PIRs. The alarm has the zones grouped to 6 total zones. The spaghetti mess is inside a small Honeywell tan can.
 
 
My plan is to have zone expanders to have easy identification of which sensor is not secure. That with the EVL-3 EnvisaLink should make it nice to see what's happening.
 
I initially looked at the ELK vs HAI setups, and quickly got to $2K for bare bones so I figured I'd postpone that purchase and make the 15P work.
 
For HA, I plan on using the Almond+ and Ube dimmers from Kickstarter and I want to keep all that separate from the alarm for now. I don't mind being an early adopter for that stuff, but not the alarm.
 
The 18" surface mounted alarm can has a 28" structured wiring panel flush mounted just below it. It's not clean.
 
I'm thinking to pull the 2 cans and add a 42" or 36" panel instead. This would be the cleanest look. I'd also add a wall rackmount above it for the UPS, router, USB drives, server, etc. 
 
My questions are:
 
Am I nuts trying to upgrade my 15P to a 20P with 4 zone expanders, RF keypad, keyfobs and EVL-3 instead of doing the ELK? I'm still coming in half the cost of the ELK. The Vista is old tech, but reliable. I'll likely wire up the panel (I'm good at that) and hire a programmer to set it up the Vista and add more keypads. If it wasn't for the EVL-3, I would have gone for the ELK. It seems like most people here get away from the Vista panels and upgrade to the ELK, just curious why, assuming the panel is strictly for security and nothing else.
 
As far as panels go, has anyone used the Honeywell QN36? They seem to have lots of bits for mounting stuff, more than the On-Q or Leviton. Especially for my Vista 20P, they have a nice mount. Nothing to fabricate. Should I shy away from the honeywell for any reason?
 
 

 

[gatchel]

I was in the same boat as you, sort of...I was going to install a 20P and then realized that the limit of 16 outputs (relays, X-10, etc) was going to be to close for comfort for me. Rather than installing the 20 and then ripping it out, I went with the Elk. There is a big difference in price but the money not wasted on the 20 went towards other Elk goodies.

Like you said, You are at half the cost of an Elk. Wait, use what you have in the interim, and save your money for the M1 or HAI. JMHO. Good luck. Keep us posted.

 

[Del91574]

It's hard to say.
 
I started with a fully loaded 20P because I wired the house before the M1 existed.
 
The last side by side I priced out the M1G and 20P very close in cost when expanded to similar capabilities....tech wise, there's some capabilities that the M1 has the P's don't, but it's not a new vs. old tech, it's the nature of the products.
 
The most logical way to expand the smaller P series panels and hardware is to get the UL commercial burg cans, you can fit a maxed panel in them with all the peripherals easily.
 
I'm not a fan of combining structured cabling in the same enclosure as security, it's just a pet peeve and I err on the side of stricter security, IE: I don't want the cable "tech" to be in the same enclosure as the security hardware (even though the majority of installs, I deal with both cabling).

 

[LabPaddy]

Thanks for the replies.
 
Gatchel, why do you use so many outputs? I figured I just need one for the siren. What else would you control with the alarm? (besides HA)
 
Del, thanks for the heads up. Honeywell does have a Vista PCB mount that fits in the QN36 that is enclosed and lockable. Would that make it better? My issue is all the wires are bundled, COAX, CAT5, and alarm. Although the expansion ports will be in their own enclosures.

 

[gatchel]

Outputs...you an control anything you want.
 
Output 3-Reversing Relay Trip for 4WTA-B smoke/sounders
 
Others:
1 Elk Water shut off valve / well pump contactor
2 for workshop door lock control
1 Entry Landscape Lighting
2 Sprinkler Control Valves-I have movable sprinkler heads that are used during seeding and patching of grass.
1 Output wired to a zone input for testing and other programming needs...
 
1 Detached Garage Door Opener Open/Close
1 Detached Garage Door Opener Light
1 Detached Garage Door Opener Lock
1 Detached Garage Compressor Contactor
1 Detached Garage Siren Output

 

[Del91574]

@Lab.
 
I like keeping security and structured separate and only cross paths when needed, such as network. First is for security purposes, second is service concerns and wire dressing. 
 
Given the fact you already have a beige Honeywell/Ademco enclosure, I'd just get a UL enclosure  (Vista-ULKT) and call it a day, straightforward swap and all the boards will fit in like legos, no other modifications or hardware needed, not to mention dealing with the existing structured enclosure. 1 thing to buy vs. a pile of adapters and enclosure....the footprint would most likely be very close, just taller, so even if the cables come in through the big 1 1/2" holes, no problem.

 

[LabPaddy]

Thanks for the help everyone. I've went ahead and put in a single Honeywell 48" panel with a 12" x 14" alarm box (MDSG450) inside the panel. I'm looking for a clean look.
 
So far, so good. I've mounted everything, got the alarm programmed 75%, mapped out all the sensors, its all coming together. Wire labels and beanies are next up.
 
As far as zone number assignments, is there any popular or industry standard method to assigning zones? Do I start at the front door and go clockwise thru the house? Or do I keep all the doors together, group all the windows and group the motions? 
 
I added a 120V outlet on the wall above the panel, I plan on putting a rackmount open-frame wall mount cabinet up there for gear and my UPS to get it off the ground. Is there any code-legal male AC power connectors that I can put on the wall to feed from my UPS and wire it to a 2nd outlet box inside my panel? Can I mount a Hubbell HBL5278C on my wall?
 
Thanks again everyone.
 
LP

 

[Neurorad]

I used this Midlite male outlet to run my enclosure power to a UPS in my rack.
 

 
http://www.amazon.com/MIDLITE-4642-W-Single-D%C3%A9cor-Recessed/dp/B002XDQAA6/ref=pd_bxgy_e_text_y

 

[LabPaddy]

That is perfect. Ordered one today! Thanks.
 
As far as the zone assignments, I'm putting the critical zones on the Vista 20P inputs and I simply grouped the others on the 3 x 4219 expansion boards.

 

[carealtor]

Sorry to revive an old thread.
 
There are a couple of references in this thread to a mounting plate for a Vista 20P PCB that can be used in an enclosure.  Can someone point me to this mount?  I want to mount my 20P in a Leviton enclosure and am looking for the best way to accomplish this.