Water Sensor Power and Wiring

[jmistler]

Planning for new install that includes GRI-2600 water sensors.
 
I have 8 zones designated for water monitoring and 16 total GRI-2600's.
 
My question regards wiring:  Can someone explain how to provide 12v of current to all of the sensors from one VAUX terminal?  Some have mentioned using wire nuts, terminal blocks, barrier strips and the like. I'm very new to wiring -- anyone have a picture of how this looks at the M1 panel?
 
Do I run a red+black 2-wire to each sensor from VAUX (and clean them up some way at the panel) and then run a separate green+white 2-wire out to each zone?
 
I think I understand how to daisy chain the sensors within each zone, but perhaps there is some complication worth mentioning there....
 
Thanks.

 

[RAL]

It's difficult to find a photo that would clearly illustrate this. 
 
I would run 22-4 cable to each sensor, rather than two separate 22-2 cables. It'll keep things neater and more organized.
 
What you need to do is connect all the power wires together with an extra pig tail wire that connects to VAUX.
 
To bundle up the power wires for connection to VAUX, wire nuts or terminal strips are both reasonable ways to do it.
 
Most terminal strips only connect pairs of screw terminals together.  You need something to provide power to all the terminals.  A buss strip makes it easy to connect them all.  Here's an example.
 
The barrier strips look nice and neat, but they take up a good amount of space.   For 16 wires, I would use wire nuts, which are easier to tuck out of the way.  You could break them up into two bundles with a jumper between them if you think one bundle of 16 is getting too big.
 
One other option for power distribution is to use a power distribution board.  Elk has the PD9.  Altronix makes a PD4, PD8 and PD16W.  But they take up even more space than the terminal strips, as they contain fuses or PTCs.
 
Here's an old thread that shows photos of PD9s and terminal strips. 

 

[jmistler]

Now, if I wanted to transfer that current draw from all of those sensors out onto my Altronix AL400ULPD4, and that AL400ULPD4 is supplying power to several Elk boards + an M1XOVR, how would I wire up the red+black wires from the sensors?  Am I thinking correctly to tie into the voltage outputs of the M1XOVR? 

 

[RAL]

Now, if I wanted to transfer that current draw from all of those sensors out onto my Altronix AL400ULPD4, and that AL400ULPD4 is supplying power to several Elk boards + an M1XOVR, how would I wire up the red+black wires from the sensors?  Am I thinking correctly to tie into the voltage outputs of the M1XOVR? 

 
I would bring all the cables from the GRI 2600s into the M1 enclosure since you will need to connect each one to the M1 zone inputs.  You could then wire nut all the power wires together along with a long pig tail cable over to the AL400 enclosure and connect that to a single PD4 output.

 

[jmistler]

In a tangential question, could you help me understand J3 on the M1XOVR (or, for that matter, J16 on the M1)? There is one positive terminal, one negative terminal and 8 voltage output terminals. This is different from the VAUX outputs on the M1 -- those each have a corresponding negative terminal.  Trying to understand how wiring would work if using either of those J3 or J16 voltage output blocks to power sensors.
 
Thanks for the help!

 

[RAL]

In a tangential question, could you help me understand J3 on the M1XOVR (or, for that matter, J16 on the M1)? There is one positive terminal, one negative terminal and 8 voltage output terminals. This is different from the VAUX outputs on the M1 -- those each have a corresponding negative terminal.  Trying to understand how wiring would work if using either of those J3 or J16 voltage output blocks to power sensors.
 
Thanks for the help!

According to Spanky, the Elk chief engineer, the J16 connector has a bit of history to it.  Elk defined the pin outs to match a connector on an older alarm system made by Moose.  Not every pin on the connector is used by every accessory board.
 
The J16 connector on the M1 board can be used to connect to an M1RB relay board to convert the voltage outputs to relay outputs, or to connect to M1TWA or M1TWI listen-in audio boards.  You can also connect the M1 J16 to an M1XOVR in the special case where you want to duplicate the M1 voltage outputs and gain OUT4 to OUT7, which are missing on the M1 board. 
 
The J3 connector on the M1XOVR is similar to the M1 J16, and can be used to connect to an M1RB.   In this case, the +12 and Neg pins on J16 are used to provide power the M1RB.    The +12V pin is a power output and should not be used as a power input to provide power to the M1XOVR.
 
You'll notice that there are also +12V terminals on J1, J2 and the screw terminal data bus connector.  These are all connected together and are the power inputs for the board.  They are not connected directly to the +12V pin of J3.
 
The board gets its power from the data bus cable connector, either from the M1 or an aux power supply, depending on how you've chosen to power your expansion boards.

 

[jmistler]

Thank you for this detail -- very helpful.  I feel like you answered the following questions, but my newb level of understanding is preventing me from seeing it. Please forgive:
 
1. Could I power 8 GRI-2600s from the M1XOVR's J3 9-16 outputs? Would each sensor's red wire connect to each of those J3 9-16 outputs?  Would each sensor's black wire connect to J3's negative terminal, all in parallel?  What, then, is J3's positive terminal used for? Powering an M1RB only?
 
2. If I'm thinking correctly about powering GRI-2600s from J3's 9-16 outputs, then am I also thinking correctly that if I am powering the M1XOVR from an AL400ULPD4, then the 8 GRI-2600s are drawing their power from the  AL400ULPD4 without being directly pigtailed to it as discussed in an early post?
 
Thanks.

 

[RAL]

jmistler, on 27 Sept 2020 - 23:50, said:
jmistler, on 27 Sept 2020 - 23:50, said:
jmistler, on 27 Sept 2020 - 23:50, said:
jmistler, on 27 Sept 2020 - 23:50, said:
Thank you for this detail -- very helpful. I feel like you answered the following questions, but my newb level of understanding is preventing me from seeing it. Please forgive:

1. Could I power 8 GRI-2600s from the M1XOVR's J3 9-16 outputs? Would each sensor's red wire connect to each of those J3 9-16 outputs? Would each sensor's black wire connect to J3's negative terminal, all in parallel? What, then, is J3's positive terminal used for? Powering an M1RB only?

2. If I'm thinking correctly about powering GRI-2600s from J3's 9-16 outputs, then am I also thinking correctly that if I am powering the M1XOVR from an AL400ULPD4, then the 8 GRI-2600s are drawing their power from the AL400ULPD4 without being directly pigtailed to it as discussed in an early post?

Thanks.

I think maybe you are confused about the wiring of the sensors and the use of a M1XOVR. Or maybe I'm confused as to why you brought up the M1XOVR. I was thinking you just wanted to use the M1XOVR as a place to tap into power for the GRI 2600s.

The GRI 2600s are sensors that connect to zone inputs, either on the M1 or on a M1XIN input expander board. They connect to the M1 and get power the same way other sensors, such a motion detector, would.

The M1XOVR is an output expander and is used to control things like relays or other devices that you want to operate. The M1XOVR has 8 voltage outputs and 8 relay outputs. The 8 voltage outputs are what the J3 connector is used for. These output pins on this connector are not meant to provide power to anything except to operate a small device like a relay or LED. A M1RB can be connected to J3 to change the voltage outputs over to 8 additional relay outputs. The M1RB needs some power to operate the relays, and that's why there is a +12V pin on J3.

Below is a diagram of how I think you said you want to hook up the GRI 2600s to your system, with two sensors connected to a zone, for a total of 8 zones and 16 sensors. I've shown them connected to zones 1 to 8 on the M1 board. But you could also connect them to a M1XIN input expander, in which case they might be zones 17 to 23, or whatever range you choose.

The drawing shows the red and black power wires going to +VAUX and NEG on the M1. If you wanted to power them from the AL400, you could connect them there instead, even while using zones 1 to 8 for the inputs. There is no requirement that the sensors get their power from the same board as the zone inputs are connected to.

[Edit]: Updated the diagram to better show how the sensors are wired when in series.

Note that each pair of sensors is connected in series, since the GRI 2600 has a normally closed contact.

 

[jmistler]

Wow, you really communicated that clearly. So thankful for your help, RAL. Amazing.

 

[jmistler]

A few more questions came to mind, if I haven't exhausted your time:
 
1. As an audio tech, this particular type of low voltage wiring is new to me. Could you send me a link to a pigtail wire like you suggested I use for all of the red and black wires? What gauge does it need to be? Ebay? allelectronics.com? What about the other accessories you mentioned like jumpers and the like?
 
2. If I wire nut or terminal strip all of those GRI-2600 power wires together (and a few PIRs, as well) and pigtail them into M1 VAUX (forget Altronix for now) if one sensor fails, do they all go down? If so, would adding some power distribution boards to supply fused power to each sensor make sense? Does anybody even worry about this?
 
Thanks!

 

[RAL]

A few more questions came to mind, if I haven't exhausted your time:
 
1. As an audio tech, this particular type of low voltage wiring is new to me. Could you send me a link to a pigtail wire like you suggested I use for all of the red and black wires? What gauge does it need to be? Ebay? allelectronics.com? What about the other accessories you mentioned like jumpers and the like?
 
2. If I wire nut or terminal strip all of those GRI-2600 power wires together (and a few PIRs, as well) and pigtail them into M1 VAUX (forget Altronix for now) if one sensor fails, do they all go down? If so, would adding some power distribution boards to supply fused power to each sensor make sense? Does anybody even worry about this?
 
Thanks!

A pigtail is an electrician's term for a short length of wire that connects from one point to another.   With many electrical devices, you can put only one wire under a screw terminal.  So to connect say, a switch, to several other wires, you connect a pigtail wire to the switch and then use a wire nut to connect the other end of the pigtail to the several other wires it needs to be in contact with. 
 
The pigtail usually is the same gauge as all the other wires.  Most pigtails tend to be a short length (say less than 12 to 24"), so wire resistance isn't going to be a problem, especially with a current of just a few amps.  When I need a pigtail wire, I just cut a short length of 22-2 or 22-4 cable and pull out a single wire of the same color to use as the pigtail. 
 
If you connect all the power wires for your sensors together with wire nuts or terminal strips, that can set you up for having a failure in one that takes out all the others.  If a short in the wiring to one sensor occurred, that would affect the power to all of them. That's where using a power distribution board with fuses can help.  The fuse for the one sensor (or one small group of sensors) would blow, and everything else would keep working.  
 
Whether you use a power distribution board or not, you would know about the failure immediately.   The motion sensors and water sensors have normally closed relay contacts that require power to stay closed.  A short in the power wires would cause the relay to open, creating an alarm condition. 
 
Then you've got the problem of figuring out which of the many sensors has the short.  With a power distribution board, the blown fuse will help you narrow it down more quickly.  Without the PD board, you'll need to disconnect them from each other and check one by one.
 
Overall, failures like that are rare, but they do happen. Not to everyone, but you never know which you will be. If you chose not to use a power distribution board, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

 

[jmistler]

... and how would you "jumper" two bundles of cables, as you suggested earlier in our thread?
 
Thanks!

 

[RAL]

... and how would you "jumper" two bundles of cables, as you suggested earlier in our thread?
 
Thanks!

Just use a pigtail wire that goes from one bundle to the other.
 

 

[jmistler]

Of course. Wanted to make sure I fully understood. 

 

[jmistler]

How about exporting the power source for those 8 GRI-2600 zones + 4 PIRs out to an Altronix AL400ULXPD16? That would free up space inside the Elk enclosure, provide fuse protection on the sensors, and provide additional aux power for any Elk boards like the M1TWA, etc. Am I thinking correctly there?
 
One issue that comes to mind (given my inexperience with wiring) is how to physically separate the green+yellow pairs going to the M1XIN from the red+black pairs going out to the Altronix, since they are bundled together in the 4-wire jacket from each sensor zone.  I'm sure that's a stupid question to anyone else on this forum, but hoped I could get a little guidance.
 
Thanks!