Wiring 4 wire smoke detector

[rmf]

Hi all -

First of all, one to thank everyone for their advice. I did end up obtaining a elk m1 system and I'm in the process of installing it.

So far everything has been pretty straightforward, but I do have a question about how to properly wire a four-wire smoke detector system.

My belief is that the system is daisy chained, but what I have back at the panel is essentially two wires interconnected. The only "free" ends I have are red and black which I assume are power.

I would like to connect him to the SAUX to allow the panel to reset after false alarms. But it also seems to me that these should be connected to a zone?

I guess I'm not entirely clear what is going on with the wiring here, was wondering if someone could shed some light on it?

Thanks!

 

[RAL]

Did you home run the cables to each smoke detector? That won't work unless you have 2 home run cables from each detector back to the panel.

You need one home run cable from the first smoke detector to the second, and then a cable from the first smoke detector to the second smoke detector and so on. At the last smoke detector you will need to install an EOL resistor and an EOLR supervision relay,

What model smoke detectors are you using and how many do you have?

 

[rmf]

Did you home run the cables to each smoke detector? That won't work unless you have 2 home run cables from each detector back to the panel.

You need one home run cable from the first smoke detector to the second, and then a cable from the first smoke detector to the second smoke detector and so on. At the last smoke detector you will need to install an EOL resistor and an EOLR supervision relay,

What model smoke detectors are you using and how many do you have?

I did not run these, they were like this in the prior panel which I disassembled.

4 wires were previously connected to a Concord 4 panel so I don't know off hand the brand, etc but I do believe I have that info....

 

[rmf]

Did you home run the cables to each smoke detector? That won't work unless you have 2 home run cables from each detector back to the panel.

You need one home run cable from the first smoke detector to the second, and then a cable from the first smoke detector to the second smoke detector and so on. At the last smoke detector you will need to install an EOL resistor and an EOLR supervision relay,

What model smoke detectors are you using and how many do you have?

Hey @RAL -

I was able to pull up the info. Please note that I am dealing with what was left to me by the prior owner. To my knowledge, these are all home runs.

It appears that each of these two lines goes to a BK-5603 smoke/heat detector - example here: https://www.jmac.com/System_Sensor_5603_p/SYSTEM-SENSOR-5603.htm

I note that at the panel I see a resistor and what appears to be the two of them wired in series. Both of these are home runs, as best as I can tell. Obviously they are attempting to "loop them together here at the panel, hence the resistor and the wiring.

I guess my questions are:

1) Is this acceptable?

2) If so, how do I connect to the M1G panel? My plan was to connect to the SAUX but that would only provide power, not monitoring of an alarm signal - correct?

Thanks

 

[jpmargis]

From the installation instructions ...


This is also what is shown in your photo. The panel +/- connections are zone connections.

 

[rmf]

From the installation instructions ...
View attachment 11225

This is also what is shown in your photo. The panel +/- connections are zone connections.

THanks @jpmargis .

Stupid question time - so where does the power come from? And since these don't connect to the SAux - then how do I reset them?

 

[jpmargis]

Simple temperature sensitive switches - no power, no reset.

 

[rmf]

That makes sense. Thank you so much for the explanation.

 

[RAL]

The 5603s are heat sensors, not smoke detectors. They respond to a high temperature (e.g. 135F), but not smoke. They are often used where a smoke detector is not appropriate, such as in a kitchen, utility closet, garage or attic.

They do not require a reset the way smoke detectors do. The 5603 is single-use. Once the rated temperature is reached, it remains activated permanently and must be replaced. You would silence the alarm the same way as you would other alarm conditions, by entering your user code.

 

[rmf]

@RAL and @jpmargis - thanks for the help.

One additional question if you all don't mind. This is likely another stupid one...

House has a bunch of GE/Interlogix sensors. I inherited a Elk M1XRF unit. As I read the manual it seems that this receiver is best for the "crystal" receivers. I'm assuming majority of mine are not "crystal" but rather the standard 319.5.

I'm going to sue I would likely be better off with the M1XRF319? Or a M1XRFEG?

Thanks...

 

[RAL]

@RAL and @jpmargis - thanks for the help.

One additional question if you all don't mind. This is likely another stupid one...

House has a bunch of GE/Interlogix sensors. I inherited a Elk M1XRF unit. As I read the manual it seems that this receiver is best for the "crystal" receivers. I'm assuming majority of mine are not "crystal" but rather the standard 319.5.

I'm going to sue I would likely be better off with the M1XRF319? Or a M1XRFEG?

Thanks...

There's a bunch of history regarding the GE/Inerlogix sensors and the Elk receivers. It can get confusing.


The original Interlogix sensors date back to the late 80s, and were 319 MHz and used Surface Acoustic Wave (SAW) oscillators to control the frequency. The frequency range they operated in around 319 MHz was somewhat wide. In the 90s, Interlogix came out with better sensors that were crystal controlled and operated in a narrower frequency range.

At first, Elk offered a GE receiver for use with the M1, but then replaced it with their own version - the M1XRF2G. This was designed for use with the newer crystal sensors. Some SAW sensors would work with the M1XRF2G, but others would not. It all depended on how close they happened to be to 319 MHz. Elk's recommendation was to not use the M1XRF2G with SAW sensors.

The M1XRF2G is no longer supported in the more recent firmware levels on the M1 (5.3.0 and later).

Some years later, Elk replaced the 2G receiver with a newer receiver, the M1XRFEG, which would work with both SAW and crystal sensors.

Elk often refers to both of these receivers simply as the M1XRF. Makes it difficult sometimes to know which one they are talking about.

In 2019, GE/Interlogix (by now owned by UTC) got out of the business completely. And Elk decided to sell its own versions of the 319 MHz sensors and came out with the M1XRF319 receiver.

The M1XRF319 appears to be compatible with all the same sensors as the M1XRFEG was ,plus ELk's own 319 MHz sensors. The M1XRF319 operates a bit differently in terms of setting it up vs the M1XRFEG (push buttons vs DIP switches). It also seems to be able to adjust the frequency to something other than 319 MHz, though Elk doesn't explain what that is for. Perhaps so the same basic design can be used for a future update of the M1XRF2H and M1XRFTW.

It's not clear to me if the M1XRF319 will work with the old SAW sensors. Elk doesn't mention them, though they say the M1XRF319 replaces the M1XRFEG.

In the past, users have said other 319 MHz sensors which were not listed in Elk's manuals worked just fine with the M1XRFEG. As long as the sensor uses the Interlogix protocol, it should work. The M1 doesn't know what the sensor is, only that a wireless zone was triggered.

If you get the model number of the sensors you have, we should be able to figure out if they are crystal based or not.

 

[rmf]

There's a bunch of history regarding the GE/Inerlogix sensors and the Elk receivers. It can get confusing.


The original Interlogix sensors date back to the late 80s, and were 319 MHz and used Surface Acoustic Wave (SAW) oscillators to control the frequency. The frequency range they operated in around 319 MHz was somewhat wide. In the 90s, Interlogix came out with better sensors that were crystal controlled and operated in a narrower frequency range.

At first, Elk offered a GE receiver for use with the M1, but then replaced it with their own version - the M1XRF2G. This was designed for use with the newer crystal sensors. Some SAW sensors would work with the M1XRF2G, but others would not. It all depended on how close they happened to be to 319 MHz. Elk's recommendation was to not use the M1XRF2G with SAW sensors.

The M1XRF2G is no longer supported in the more recent firmware levels on the M1 (5.3.0 and later).

Some years later, Elk replaced the 2G receiver with a newer receiver, the M1XRFEG, which would work with both SAW and crystal sensors.

Elk often refers to both of these receivers simply as the M1XRF. Makes it difficult sometimes to know which one they are talking about.

In 2019, GE/Interlogix (by now owned by UTC) got out of the business completely. And Elk decided to sell its own versions of the 319 MHz sensors and came out with the M1XRF319 receiver.

The M1XRF319 appears to be compatible with all the same sensors as the M1XRFEG was ,plus ELk's own 319 MHz sensors. The M1XRF319 operates a bit differently in terms of setting it up vs the M1XRFEG (push buttons vs DIP switches). It also seems to be able to adjust the frequency to something other than 319 MHz, though Elk doesn't explain what that is for. Perhaps so the same basic design can be used for a future update of the M1XRF2H and M1XRFTW.

It's not clear to me if the M1XRF319 will work with the old SAW sensors. Elk doesn't mention them, though they say the M1XRF319 replaces the M1XRFEG.

In the past, users have said other 319 MHz sensors which were not listed in Elk's manuals worked just fine with the M1XRFEG. As long as the sensor uses the Interlogix protocol, it should work. The M1 doesn't know what the sensor is, only that a wireless zone was triggered.

If you get the model number of the sensors you have, we should be able to figure out if they are crystal based or not.

What a history! In planning on my system and trying to educate myself, I did see this variety of models. Unfortunately, I think I sort of dropped the ball in not realizing exactly which model I was purchasing.

In any case come the majority of the sensors are window sensors. I popped one off this morning and it's a UTC TX - 1012-01.

Edit: a little Google tells me these are crystal sensors, so I may be okay with the RF receiver. I have a few other sensors to check but as I said, majority of the sensors are these window sensors.

 

[RAL]

What a history! In planning on my system and trying to educate myself, I did see this variety of models. Unfortunately, I think I sort of dropped the ball in not realizing exactly which model I was purchasing.

In any case come the majority of the sensors are window sensors. I popped one off this morning and it's a UTC TX - 1012-01.

Edit: a little Google tells me these are crystal sensors, so I may be okay with the RF receiver. I have a few other sensors to check but as I said, majority of the sensors are these window sensors.

UTC bought GE Security in 2010. So if your sensors are labeled UTC, they are relatively recent and are most likely all crystal based.

The earliest 319 MHz sensors were made by ITI, which merged with another company called SLC Technologies in 2000. The merged company changed their name to Interlogix. Then, in 2002, GE purchased Interlogix. GE kept the Interlogix name for a while, but in 2004, GE changed the name of the company to GE Security. When UTC bought the business from GE in 2010, they revived the Interlogix name and it became UTC/Interlogix. So these sensors have gone by many brand names over the years.

 

[rmf]

UTC bought GE Security in 2010. So if your sensors are labeled UTC, they are relatively recent and are most likely all crystal based.

The earliest 319 MHz sensors were made by ITI, which merged with another company called SLC Technologies in 2000. The merged company changed their name to Interlogix. Then, in 2002, GE purchased Interlogix. GE kept the Interlogix name for a while, but in 2004, GE changed the name of the company to GE Security. When UTC bought the business from GE in 2010, they revived the Interlogix name and it became UTC/Interlogix. So these sensors have gone by many brand names over the years.

Thanks RAL. What a sorted tale lol.

House was built in 2015, so I guess it would make sense that the sensors are relatively new. You wouldn't know by how yellowed the plastic has gotten....

Are the "crystal" sensors considered to be the new standard then?

 

[electron]

As someone who has various versions of the ELK RF hardware, @RAL did a fantastic job capturing all these changes in 1 post. I lost track myself, and between beta testing new RF hardware, crystal vs SAW, and firmware version dependencies, it's something I've been dreading dealing with for a while.