What in the world is this?

[ellesshoo]

I was looking at a house yesterday and went down into the basement and in addition to two very large electrical panels that were completely filled with breakers there was this other large panel that I have no idea what it's for (see pictures).

The realtor didn't know either but he said one the previous owners was an electrician by profession. I swear there was probably enough breakers to dedicate one per outlet.

 

[pete_c]

Do you have a lot of flourescent lighting in the house?
 
I personally have never seen anything like thing before.  I am not an electrician; just a DIY person.
 
Here I added more circuits and split some circuits such that I have more breakers in the single panel.
 
IE: like instead of two bedrooms on one breaker its two breakers.   
 
In the old house I added an electrical subpanel in the garage for just the garage electric.
 
Typically a flourescent ballast (CT electricians chime in); as a standard 120VAC to it and ups the voltage out to the bulb for a period of time to start the lamp.  I've personally never seen a small ballast like you have in the picture there.
 

The ballast or electrical ballast, as it is commonly known is a device used for limiting the flow of charge in a circuit. A fluorescent ballast provides a high voltage to initiate the current discharge. To sustain the discharge in a safe manner, the current is then limited quickly. Fluorescent ballasts are used for lamps of three different types i.e. rapid start, pre heat and instant start. This technology is used in compact fluorescent lamps (CFLs).

 

 
Usually these are adjacent to the lights or fluorescent tubes.  A long time ago the ballasts were a pita to have to change typically disassembling the entire light structure somewhat after removing the bulbs then removing the cover of the housing.  I wonder if being an electrican and having to do a lot of this; he DIY'd it in his home to what you see today?
 
Interesting I googled General electric tungstun ballast and see a bunch of stuff.
 
Special tungstun lighting and not really specific about anything relating to fluorescent lighting.

 

[fcwilt]

It sorta looks like he has an old GE low voltage lighting system - those devices being the relays to switch the high voltage to the loads - using low voltage control.
 
Are the light switches in the house push buttons as opposed to typical toggle/paddle switches?

 

[JimS]

I think Frederick got it right.  Google RR-8 and GE and you will find that the RR-7 and RR-9 are similar.  Here's a link with some details:
 
http://www.kele.com/lighting-controls/rr-7,-rr-9.aspx
 
The center box is apparently the low voltage section.

 

[Neurorad]

I agree, probably a centralized lighting control system. Lutron, Crestron, Centralite, and Vantage offer similar systems.

 

[pete_c]

So then the electrican in the house there that you looked at was a DIY person well ahead of the times.

 

[ellesshoo]

It sorta looks like he has an old GE low voltage lighting system - those devices being the relays to switch the high voltage to the loads - using low voltage control.
 

Are the light switches in the house push buttons as opposed to typical toggle/paddle switches?

Come to think of it, they were. Best way to describe them would be to just try to imagine what a 2 or 4 button leviton/lutron keypad would have looked like had it been designed in the 70's (hell, maybe even earlier). I think you're on the right track, but why are the units labeled as ballasts and not relays? Wish I had enough interest in the house to make my realtor show it to me again. Interesting.

 

[fcwilt]

What you are seeing is the rating of the relay based on the type of load. Look at it carefully and I think it will make sense to you.

 

[BLH]

The modules look like some of the AC solid state relays I use to use in machines at work.

 

[Del91574]

The answer is none of the above.....
 
It's a touchplate system. I can't remember who was the OEM, Bryant and GE among some others, but there were 2-3 variations and manufacturers, basically they date to the late 40's on.  They're still available. www.touchplate.com  One of the IBM facilities near here had a very large install of a system like this.
 
The line voltage is controlled via relays which are tripped using LV and lighter cable to the touchplates. The relays are typically steppers and allow very easy multi switched circuits...until a switch starts going bad or the relay gets sticky...also tough if a HO that really didn't know or understand them did "maintenance" over the years, same with many electricians.
I guess you could say it's the predecessor for central load installations.
 
My guess is the original HO probably brewed some of their own solution, as the relay method would be what I would understand being used unless he's using them to drop the voltage to about 24-28V for the switches to operate...there might be more hardware (relays) hidden in a junction in the attic. Relatively nice work compared to most rats nests I see on the "molested" systems.

 

[fcwilt]

The answer was above. The relays are not steppers, in this case, they are latching relays, with two coils, one for each position, "on" and "off".

 

[Del91574]

The relays in these systems can vary, some are steppers (typically used in 3-4 way circuits) and others latching, depends on the application, not to mention the host system's switches. Hell, even some of these units had pilot lights on the buttons. 
 
I didn't look at the relay picture closely to see what they actually were because the pictures gave it away without the need for detailed examination.
 
Lots of those systems in my area in the older "higher end" construction.

 

[fcwilt]

I didn't look at the relay picture closely to see what they actually were because the pictures gave it away without the need for detailed examination.

 
Yeah... OK... Whatever you say.

 

[mikefamig]

My in-laws have a lighting system similar to this that I had to work on and it confused me at first sight. It took me a little while to figure out what was going on but it is really just a lot of a very simple circuits crowded into a box that makes it look very complicated.
 
the system uses low voltage touch-plate switches which each control a latching relay. That relay in turn energizes the 120vac load. The 120vac circuit, when energized, powers a 15 volt step down transformer which is used to illuminate a pilot light at the respective switch. That adds up to one relay and one transformer for each load in the house all stuffed into a box and it was a little challenge for me to sort out what was gong on at first.
 
The advantage of the system is that it allows you to easily put several switches on one load. For example: you can put a switch in the bedroom to control exterior lights by simply running a low voltage cable from the relay to the bedroom switch.
 
Mike.
.

 

[Del91574]

That is all true Mike. Of course there's variations of the theme, but installed, functioning and in good service, I wouldn't mind having a system like this anywhere over the traditional 120VAC hot leg method. Easier wiring methods, just like centralized load with LV control.