What would you pay for flawless occupancy detection?

[Quixote_1]

Thank you to everyone for your input. This initial market research is encouraging, no matter how small a sample it is.

Quixote,

Occupancy upstairs would be nice too now that we're talking about it... like JTR talked about that - I can do 90% of that through single cascading actions - but one kids come into play, all bets are off.

Rather than describe the layout, here's a floorplan of what I'd be dealing with. http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?app=core&module=attach&section=attach&attach_rel_module=post&attach_id=3571

That's a lot of rooms to monitor for 5 bills. Would you want to know how many occupants in each room, or would you be satisfied just know whether or not there is someone up there? You are right about the kids being a difficult part of the equation. I'm thinking that they may be the biggest challenge for accuracy.

edit: spelling

 

[Vycor]

Im guessing hes gonna use a Microosft Kinetc (however its spelled) to do it, just my 2 cents... but a sensor like that, maybe a hundred bucks i'd pay. Gotta remember i'd want these in every room and anyhigher would get very expensive.

 

[ano]

Im guessing hes gonna use a Microosft Kinetc (however its spelled) to do it, just my 2 cents... but a sensor like that, maybe a hundred bucks i'd pay. Gotta remember i'd want these in every room and anyhigher would get very expensive.

With almost every store sold-out of them at $149.99, I would have to doubt you'll be buying them for $100 anytime soon. (Although they have only around $25 in components.)

 

[tmbrown97]

I wouldn't expect all that for 5 bills... I'm thinking of more uses as we go... I'd probably spend a grand to cover the majority of the house. I don't think I'd care about the number of people, except maybe in the master bedroom where I could see advantages to knowing if we're both in bed or just one of us.

 

[JTR7]

I wouldn't expect all that for 5 bills... I'm thinking of more uses as we go... I'd probably spend a grand to cover the majority of the house. I don't think I'd care about the number of people, except maybe in the master bedroom where I could see advantages to knowing if we're both in bed or just one of us.

Good point. Number of occupants is nice, but not essential. If someone's there, that's all that really matters, unless you can identify who is there. Although, if at 1 in the morning there's a visitor in my daughter's room...

I agree, master bedroom would be good to know. If only one of us is up, I'd like to have lights on 50-70%, if both it doesn't matter so much.

 

[tmbrown97]

Although, if at 1 in the morning there's a visitor in my daughter's room...

Good point! I hope I have 10 years before that's an issue... but knowing how many windows I snuck into, that could be important! Although, generally I then snuck the girls out, at which point you'd see the room empty... and unless they figure out how to bypass the window sensors, it should make that harder...

Now if you want to go too far with this, knowing how many people are in each room - and covering EVERY room, it could be fun writing rules to keep track of how many people are home; and maybe even know who by their movement patterns; then be able to tell if someone goes cold during the night (elder care) or the number of people changes mysteriously (without a door opening).

 

[Quixote_1]

... but knowing how many windows I snuck into, that could be important! Although, generally I then snuck the girls out...

Should we be contacting the FBI? lol

 

[Quixote_1]

I should mention that these devices will not be meant as security devices, but rather automation aids. Regardless of their accuracy I intend on keeping them in the realm of lifestyle improvement and economical power usage. Secure your perimeter with door and window sensors and bolster that system with motion sensors, but manage your comfort and conveniences inside your abode as a separate system. We'll make things in that area a lot simpler, but I will not be held responsible for your teenage daughter's indiscretions.

For that you will have to buy our "Exterminator 50" high caliber fully auto sentry gun. It comes in two models, one disguised as a garden gnome and one as a water-fountain.

 

[tmbrown97]

LMAO! Sounds perfectly reasonable. Can you send me a link to the Garden Nome model?

And for sneaking the girls out - that was when I was their age too...

 

[Quixote_1]

LMAO! Sounds perfectly reasonable. Can you send me a link to the Garden Nome model?

And for sneaking the girls out - that was when I was their age too...

...and I assume they were consenting... LOL

 

[xnyx]

I would figure I would pay up to about $200.00 per room...

 

[hucker]

That'd be invaluable in automation. If it was 99% accurate, including motionless people, you could cut your energy costs drastically. Imagine lights being turned off whenever you left a room. I would no longer have to worry about my children leaving lights on in the laundry room because they had too much to carry to turn off the lights. The garage is another big area where the family leaves the lights on, mostly because they go out there to grab food or drink from the second fridge. Imagine the heat/AC being turned down a few degrees when you left the house and automatically resuming your desired temperature when you returned.

I'd be willing to pay ~100-200 per room for such a feature.

I think you need to to quantify what you mean by 'cut your energy costs drastically'. I think people WAY over estimate the cost of things like lights and cold water. There is some very simple math you can do to get a handle on real costs.

In Seattle a kw/hr is about $0.11 and there are about 9000 hours in a year. This gives a rule of thumb that each watt that runs continuously for a year costs about a buck. A room with 6 CFL's running non stop for a year only costs $90 to run. On average I'd bet with zero automation they are only on 4hrs/day? A rough estimate is that lights cost 15 bucks per room with CFL maybe 4x that for incandescent. Spending $100/200 per room to save energy seems to have a pretty long ROI unless you have very high energy costs and LOTS of incandescent lights.

If these sensors are kinect based don't forget that they each draw 12W or about 12$/year. If you have automated switches they draw about a 1W a each. When you start doing the math efficiency is hard.

If you want to save money on energy the big hitters are insulation, turn the heat down in winter, up in summer, choose efficient heating technolgies, use less hot water, use a programmable thermostat, use CFL's, get a smaller house. Managing lighting using occupancy comes after all of these things IMO.

Automation seems to me to be more about convenience and control and secondarily about energy.

 

[Kevin L]

Well said, Chuck.

 

[ver0776]

I get motion detection for $8 per room. I would pay to know WHO the people were in a room ($100 per room with nothing to carry). I don't see value in knowing how many people are in a room. And with pets and kids, 99% is simply impossible anyway.

2 people are in a room, 1 left, who is in the room? No one knows... The only solution I have even heard of is signal triangulation, and I have not seen that available for a house yet. Logic can do alot of the same things. ie 2 people are in a room and now I detect motion in the hallway And in the room, 1 person left the room.

2 people are in the master bedroom sleeping, one wakes up who is it? Just check which side of bed they got up from, or which pressure sensor is still active, etc.

I wish you the best of luck, but my vote is at $35-45 each =) Even if you are 100% successful, it is only a stop-gap measure until the house knows Who is Where...

Vaughn

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Maybe this will be cheaper: http://www.engadget.com/2011/01/03/primesense-and-asus-team-bring-kinect-like-wavi-xtion-to-your-h/

Same basic tech as Kinect, minus the color camera portion, but if you just want to sense human occupants... you can still use the PrimeSense API to let it do the heavy lifting of people-identifying.

Bonus, this thing is made up of two wirelessly connected gizmos. Of course, there's no telling how many can operate in proximity...

Though it might end up as expensive or more despite the color camera omission, since it's two wireless enabled devices instead of a single wired one.

As for identifying who's who in a room, Kinect can do this, at least on the 360 - I don't know if the PrimeSense APIs have any built in middleware for doing the same thing.