where to begin?

[nicklaz]

hi everyone, this is my first post on the forum and i am a newbie to home automation and security. i am building a new house and would like to add a security system that i can access remotely over the net. are there any packaged systems that give you this functionality? i'm not sure what sec options our builder offers so i'm not sure if we should let them install what they have or just install an aftermarket system once the house is complete. i am also trying to save money which may be a contradiction to what i'm trying to accomplish. please give me your opinions on what i should do.

thanks,
nick

 

[Steve]

Are you looking for just a basic security only system with remote access or something more complete and expandable with HA capability? If the latter then either the Elk M1G or HAI line like the Omni will work good.

 

[nicklaz]

Are you looking for just a basic security only system with remote access or something more complete and expandable with HA capability? If the latter then either the Elk M1G or HAI line like the Omni will work good.

yes, i would like to add some HA at some point but i'm not sure what protocal to go with. i test insteon and didn't really care for it. i may try z-wave next but i've read reviews that go both ways and a poor/unreliable/slow responding system wont fly with the wife. i plan on having the house wired for ethernet throughout for a pc based audio/video distribution system and would like to add some ip cameras at some point too. but that's another thing that i'm not sure who the best vendors are or if it even makes sense to use ip cameras from a reliability/video quality point of view. any opinions here would be appreciated as well.

 

[LaurentR]

The only things you really want to prewire are the keypads and speakers/mics. These typically need to be prewired and rarely exist wireless. You can pull a few Cat5 for that, except the speakers, which typically want a bit more (or I guess you can always tie together a few Cat5 pairs).

Wiring sensors is a cost trade-off exercise (cost of pulling wires vs. cost of wireless sensors and reliability).

Finally, if you want to automate but don't want to go to wired automation and later pick Insteon, zwave or UPB, make sure you get a neutral wire in all your switch outlets. Some switches work "inline" with no neutral (like the Zwave Vizia RF incandescent dimmers), but many require a neutral, which is generally not available on basic wiring.

Personally, I had a quick remodel of my house and managed to pull some wires, but not enough. I ended up going with Elk (great support to DIYers) and zwave (good looking switches, almost reasonably priced and inline dimmers for my old boxes).

Laurent

 

[nicklaz]

The only things you really want to prewire are the keypads and speakers/mics. These typically need to be prewired and rarely exist wireless. You can pull a few Cat5 for that, except the speakers, which typically want a bit more (or I guess you can always tie together a few Cat5 pairs).

Wiring sensors is a cost trade-off exercise (cost of pulling wires vs. cost of wireless sensors and reliability).

Finally, if you want to automate but don't want to go to wired automation and later pick Insteon, zwave or UPB, make sure you get a neutral wire in all your switch outlets. Some switches work "inline" with no neutral (like the Zwave Vizia RF incandescent dimmers), but many require a neutral, which is generally not available on basic wiring.

Personally, I had a quick remodel of my house and managed to pull some wires, but not enough. I ended up going with Elk (great support to DIYers) and zwave (good looking switches, almost reasonably priced and inline dimmers for my old boxes).

Laurent

i didn't know there are wireless sensors. are they zwave compaitble or some other protocol? do you own any? how would you rate them?

i'll have to ask my builder if they can add a neutral wire. is it possible to add afterward or must it be done when they are initially wiring?

how would you rate zwave in your experience? thanks for the help.

 

[LaurentR]

i didn't know there are wireless sensors. are they zwave compaitble or some other protocol? do you own any? how would you rate them?

i'll have to ask my builder if they can add a neutral wire. is it possible to add afterward or must it be done when they are initially wiring?

how would you rate zwave in your experience? thanks for the help.

Wireless security sensors. That's very common (look at what your local ADT ad provides). Elk piggy backs on GE's infrastructure, so you get a wireless receiver for the Elk and then you can use a good part of the GE catalog of wireless sensors (contacts, movement, smoke...).
You can get a GE wireless receiver and use most GE sensors or get a Elk receiver and use some. The following doc on p8 shows a list of supported sensors by the Elk receiver:
http://www.elkproducts.com/pdf/M1XRF_Wireless_Receiver.pdf

As for the neutral, it's gotta be pulled in initial wiring, or you're going to have to rewire it yourself, which may or may not be easy/possible.

Finally for Zwave... Zwave is a bit more complicated that necessary to deal with (compared the the good old X10), but it has been pretty reliable and uneventful for me. I have seen it freak out when devices go off the network (plug-in unplugged, dead light bulb...). In which case it is slowish in some locations while the network is trying to recover, but otherwise, no issue.

Laurent

 

[BrettS]

i didn't know there are wireless sensors. are they zwave compaitble or some other protocol? do you own any? how would you rate them?

There are wireless sensors, but they're propriatery to the alarm system.

i'll have to ask my builder if they can add a neutral wire. is it possible to add afterward or must it be done when they are initially wiring?

If this is new construction I'd be pretty surprised if you don't have nutral wires at each box, but it certainly doesn't hurt to ask the electrician to be sure. I think it's more of a problem in older homes. Technically it's possible to add afterward, but like running any wires through the wall, it's not an easy task.

how would you rate zwave in your experience? thanks for the help.

I know this question wasn't directed to me, but I just started using Z-Wave and so far I've been pretty happy with it. I definitely had some range issues until I got 6 or 7 modules installed, but now things seem to be operating reliably.

Brett

 

[LaurentR]

BTW,
for ZWave,
I have 12 dimmers/switches, 5 4-button controllers, 1 1-button controller, about 20 plug-in lamp and appliance modules and 4 outdoor appliance modules, plus the Vizia remote and the RZC0P to connect to the Elk. Everything is Vizia RF except for the 4 outdoor modules (Intematic) - and I wish Leviton made these too as they don't seem to report their current level.
This is all in a smallish house (1400 sqft) and I haven't see any range issue, even for the outdoor modules, which are pretty af in the backyard.

Laurent

 

[nicklaz]

BTW,
for ZWave,
I have 12 dimmers/switches, 5 4-button controllers, 1 1-button controller, about 20 plug-in lamp and appliance modules and 4 outdoor appliance modules, plus the Vizia remote and the RZC0P to connect to the Elk. Everything is Vizia RF except for the 4 outdoor modules (Intematic) - and I wish Leviton made these too as they don't seem to report their current level.
This is all in a smallish house (1400 sqft) and I haven't see any range issue, even for the outdoor modules, which are pretty af in the backyard.

Laurent

great information guys, thanks a lot. i think i may give zwave a try.

i'll find out about the neutral wire when i meet with the electrician but i think thats still a month or so away.

i just found out that they are going to install sensors on all the doors and windows but when i asked what kind, the lady did not know but she thought it might be a brinks system. i don't know anything about brinks other than they are a monitoring company. can i use the elk to tie into the brinks sec system? i will meet with the builder again in a couple of weeks to get the details but i think they offer other choices other than brinks as well. are there any systems out there that will work with diy automation systems better than others?

 

[Steve]

Be careful, alot of those name brand (ie ADT, Brinks) systems are subsidized and you will get locked into outrageous monitoring contracts. Make sure if the builder put in a Brinks you are not locked into any kind of monitoring. But it is best if you can work with the builder from scratch to get the system you want (if possible).