Where to install ceiling speakers in a dining room?

[hucker]

I pre-wired for audio in our dining room. The table is the standard long rectangular variety. I set it up so I could place the speakers anywehre from the center of the table all the way to the wall (with windows). Were should the speakers be placed for ambient music? Over the table seems to close, but by the window seems like it will 'off center' with one side getting too much and the other side getting too much.

 

[beelzerob]

I'm by no means an expert...but for background music, I really don't think it matters much where it is in the room. I'd put them out of the way just for the aesthetics. Not all the way to the edge of the room, but definitely not over the table.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

I'd use a dual voice coil for most applications. Placement would depend on the room. For a larger room you may want either 2 dual voice coils or 2 pairs of regular speakers. You want to make sure that anyone seated can hear full stereo.

 

[dykwok]

I basically take the center ceiling chandelier as the reference
and take about half way to each edge of the room.
I don't think it really matters exactly where they are but I was
more worry about how center they are when someone looks up
to the ceiling <_<

 

[Neurorad]

My pre-owned house came with a pair of in-walls in the formal dining room, centered 2-3 feet above the floor. They were installed at the time of construction, c. 1994.

The DA speakers throughout my house are divided between in-wall and in-ceiling.

I prefer the in-ceiling, for the most part.

Like Martin said, unless you use a single mono speaker, or 2 pairs, some people will suffer - just make sure you can hear stereo from the head of the table. <_<

I don't see why the in-ceiling speakers would be positioned off-center, toward 1 wall. In the rooms where it counts, I prefer to have the in-ceilings centered, e.g. on either side of a centered luminaire. Makes the world more balanced, with even numbers of things, and everything in its place. Got to go order another case of Ziplocs, and vacuum the garage...

 

[drvnbysound]

I basically take the center ceiling chandelier as the reference
and take about half way to each edge of the room.
I don't think it really matters exactly where they are but I was
more worry about how center they are when someone looks up
to the ceiling :angry:

I did the same thing in my home. I evaluated the room, figured out position where we would be able to utilize it the most and centered it between one or both walls of that particular room.

Examples: Kitchen speaker is pretty centered between the sink, stove, and dishwasher - the places I figured would be spent the most. MBR speaker is over the bed - centered between the wall, where the head board is, and the ceiling fan.

I don't see why the in-ceiling speakers would be positioned off-center, toward 1 wall.

Most any room has lighting fixtures in the CENTER of the room make it impossible to position them in the center, thus making them a non-option to have them off center - toward one wall or another. Certainly if you are doing dual speakers in a room, you could put a speaker on each side of the light fixture - centering them between the wall and the fixture.

Also note, the DEAD CENTER of a room isnt always an option for a speaker, as ceiling joists may be there as well <_<

 

[hucker]

It never occurred to me that anyone would care about hearing stereo in background mood music, I guess that makes me an un-audiophile I'll see how centered I can get, I don't think the floor joists are going to help me but perhaps I can do 6 inch speakers with 8 inch grills to fudge a little (my architect would be proud).

For this application I assume a nice pair of 6 inch dual voice coils (e.g. the current group buy) be OK? It is a standard height cieling. It's one of my zones in a Russound system and I assume I will use it for background only or perhaps party music run multiple zones together.

Oh yeah with all of the requirements of security, hvac, lights and sprinklers our cieling is pretty cluttered. Does someone make a grill of some kind that is very low profile or hidden?

Thanks.

 

[Sokoloff]

There are totally hidden "speakers" that act on the drywall. They were on an end-cap demo at Lowes one time when I was there.

IMO, the speakers are the least obtrusive of your wall/ceiling acne. (I hate it all too, but the speakers are even less obtrusive than can lights. I have the Monoprice ones, and on a white ceiling, they blend right in. They are also paintable, if you have a non-white ceiling. IMO, those are a great bang for the buck, and while we only have them in the bathroom and nursery so far [Grand Concerto is on its way from Brandon at AO right now], we love the sound, even though we have to go to another room to run an old receiver at the moment.)

 

[drvnbysound]

It never occurred to me that anyone would care about hearing stereo in background mood music, I guess that makes me an un-audiophile I'll see how centered I can get, I don't think the floor joists are going to help me but perhaps I can do 6 inch speakers with 8 inch grills to fudge a little (my architect would be proud).

For this application I assume a nice pair of 6 inch dual voice coils (e.g. the current group buy) be OK? It is a standard height cieling. It's one of my zones in a Russound system and I assume I will use it for background only or perhaps party music run multiple zones together.

Oh yeah with all of the requirements of security, hvac, lights and sprinklers our cieling is pretty cluttered. Does someone make a grill of some kind that is very low profile or hidden?

Thanks.

Stereo sound in the essence of actual staging doesnt matter all that much (to me) because you will usually be doing other things around the house and possibly getting turned around compared to the way the speakers are actually positioned. But, for the most part, you or someone else, may or may not care to miss song data.

The Dual Voice Coil / Dual Tweeter speakers dont really give you a Left - Right sound stage, but they are able to play the audio data from both sides of the sound stage. I know of many songs that start out with sound "effects" where the music transitions from the left to the right a couple of times, if you dont have some sort of stereo ability (even if they are the Dual VC/Tweeter speakers) you will miss these sounds and the song may sound like its missing something if you know it pretty well.

 

[nightwalker]

Stereo in some areas is more of a detraction than an asset. Most rooms that have no "sweet spot" for all, like dining rooms, decks, bathrooms, kitchens, most any room that will have people moving around doing other things, as opposed to listening, need to have mono, or if your sound equipment is not capable, dual voice coils. Keeping quality sound together in those types of areas makes it sound so much better than trying to get stereo to sound good to everyone or even to one person who keeps moving. My dining room has 4 mono channels feeding it, one in each corner of the ceiling. It sounds very good no matter what your position is at the table. Doing it this way the volume can be low so as not to interfere with conversation but still be heard by all.

I may date myself here but a lot of the early Beatles recordings that were recorded in stereo had the sound traveling back and forth between left and right. It really showed off the new stereo recordings but was completely useless in those listening areas that could not appreciate it.

 

[drvnbysound]

Stereo in some areas is more of a detraction than an asset. Most rooms that have no "sweet spot" for all, like dining rooms, decks, bathrooms, kitchens, most any room that will have people moving around doing other things, as opposed to listening, need to have mono, or if your sound equipment is not capable, dual voice coils. Keeping quality sound together in those types of areas makes it sound so much better than trying to get stereo to sound good to everyone or even to one person who keeps moving. My dining room has 4 mono channels feeding it, one in each corner of the ceiling. It sounds very good no matter what your position is at the table. Doing it this way the volume can be low so as not to interfere with conversation but still be heard by all.

I may date myself here but a lot of the early Beatles recordings that were recorded in stereo had the sound traveling back and forth between left and right. It really showed off the new stereo recordings but was completely useless in those listening areas that could not appreciate it.

I only have dual speakers (stereo) setup in my garage, and outside my back porch facing my back yard. In the other 4 locations (6 zones total) I have dual VC speakers.

Audio tracks such as those you referred to are what I was pointing out - there is even quite a bit of modern music that I hear that still does this, but it was certainly EASY to point out in the Beatles stuff (Im not nearly as old as you are!). Personally, I dont want to hear: beat - nothing - beat - nothing, etc.. as the sound travels from the left to right, if you were only utilizing a mono signal in the room. Id personally much rather hear it than to not hear it at all. Personally - and just speaking for myself - id rather hear it and the staging be off, than to not hear it at all and actually be missing part of the experience of the song.

 

[nightwalker]

If I'm reading this correctly I think you may not be quite sure of what mono is. Mono is not just one channel of a 2 channel signal, mono is both of them combined either in the recording or through your amplifier. A lot of people confuse mono with a sub par sound, that's not the case. Mono can be a very high quality stream with just all the sound coming through a single channel. With a mono speaker playing in a room you still have all the sound of stereo and also the high fidelity the only thing you don't have is the separation, which for some areas is a good thing.

 

[Neurorad]

I misunderstood 'off-center' - thought the pair was moved toward a single wall.

I really appreciate the wide separation of the stereo speakers, if I'm listening to something that I'm familiar with. Just doesn't sound 'like it should'. I really appreciate the 'separation'.

How is a dual voice coil speaker different from other 'mono' speakers?

I didn't know high-quality mono speakers existed - I learn so much from this site. I'll have to read about them, and go for a listen, Nightwalker.

 

[WayneW]

How is a dual voice coil speaker different from other 'mono' speakers?

I didn't know high-quality mono speakers existed - I learn so much from this site. I'll have to read about them, and go for a listen, Nightwalker.

A dual-voice coil speaker is essentially two speakers systems in one (in-wall or in-ceiling) chassis. The woofer has two voice coils, left and right, so it plays BOTH sounds. There are (usually) two tweeters, with one wired to each channel. A dual voice coil speaker chassis is a STEREO speaker, just in a single point source. It requires 4 conductor wiring. A pair of dual voice coil speakers will fill a room with sound, but you have to watch your impedance - since you are actually driving a pair of woofers on each channel, putting them in parallel is already a 4 ohm load (typically).

There aren't mono specific speakers. Essentially all speakers, other than dual voice coil, are mono and you simply buy/install two of them to get stereo. Floor/shelf/concert/whatever speakers are all "mono" but typically sold in pairs. I don't know of anybody that makes dual voice coil floor/shelf/concert/whatever speakers, probably because there is no market for it.

Dual voice coil speakers are needed for distributed audio where you want true stereo in some zones. If you NEVER want your distributed audio to have stereo imaging, then just mix the left & right signal at line level (before the amp) and put single speakers all over your house with 2 conductor wiring.

I use a dual voice coil in the middle of my master bath and get full sound everywhere. I don't have dedicated speakers in my dining room (too open to the living room), so I don't know if I would go for a single dual voice coil (cheapest, but no visual symmetry), a pair of dual voice coils (visual symmetry, full coverage, but no stereo imaging) or a stereo pair (visual symmetry, but imaging may be weird depending upon seat location). I know that in a long hall situation, a row of dual voice coils is very nice... otherwise you keep walking under left-right-left-right and the imaging sucks.

 

[drvnbysound]

If I'm reading this correctly I think you may not be quite sure of what mono is. Mono is not just one channel of a 2 channel signal, mono is both of them combined either in the recording or through your amplifier. A lot of people confuse mono with a sub par sound, that's not the case. Mono can be a very high quality stream with just all the sound coming through a single channel. With a mono speaker playing in a room you still have all the sound of stereo and also the high fidelity the only thing you don't have is the separation, which for some areas is a good thing.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaural

States: "During the 1960s, it was common that albums were released as both monaural LPs and stereo LPs, occasionally with slight differences between the two (again detailed information of The Beatles recordings provide a good example of the differences). This was because many people owned mono record players which were incapable of playing stereo records, as well as the prevalence of AM radio."

From that statement, I certainly take that mono is mono - 1 channel, thats why the mono players could not play stereo recordings. From my perspective mono is one channel, not one speaker.

Combining both channels is bridging as far as I'm concerned. I dont want to get caught up in the terminology, but I now understand what you were saying before. As long as you have a system in place that plays the music properly (no missing data from one channel or another) I am all for it personally - no matter how you have to do it.