Which technology to use for an inexpensive basic config: Z-wave, UPB, INSTEON?

[ghurty]

Thank you to everyone who has been helping me learn the basics.

Now for the hot topic: Which technology?

I think I have narrowed it down to: z-wave, UPB, or INSTEON.

I know everyone has their own preferences and it depends on the situation.

The biggest key point over here is the price. I am looking for the most inexpensive option but that still works.

So hear is my scenario:

Eventually I will move to a new house and want to do the whole works, but for right now, this is what I am trying to accomplish:

1) Control the lights in 4 rooms
2) Control one thermostat
3) I have no problem with having a computer on the whole time, but would look at options so I dont need to
4) Have the ability so that they work on a schedule but can be activated remotely (via web or smartphone)

A fifth option I would like, but if to expensive I would go with it. Is there an easy way to monitor whether a door is locked or not. For example a deadbolt is engaged. I do not want one of the devices that monitor the lock itself (kwikset, etc...) rather it is a sensor that would work even with a "dumb" deadbolt. Preferably wireless like this: http://www.smarthome.com/73174/iON-Plunger-G-Door-Sensor-for-GE-Wireless/p.aspx


I think that is all I would need in the basic setup. So I am looking for what would be the most inexpensive (but still reliable) technology.

I see in other posts people attack z-wave and INSTEON, but those were from a while ago.

Also, for that technology, what parts would I need for each. Can you please list both options of whether using an always on computer or an inexpensive standalone controller.
If using the computer, what is a good inexpensive (easy to use) software. I wont be needing bells and whistles for this install, so the simpler the better.

Once this is done, I get to start planning my dream house.


Thanks

 

[aartech]

Hopefully this doesn't turn in to a technology bashing thread and sometimes technology preferences are akin to people's favorite cars or sports team. My advice to you is to look at some options for the system controller that you will use to create schedules and allow remote Internet or smart phone access. Since the right controller can make all the difference in the world this should factor in to your decision. For ZWave have a look at VERA and Hometroller and for INSTEON have a look at the ISY99i or Hometroller again as these tend to be most popular. Hometroller does tend to lean towards Zwave technology as their 'bread and butter' but also supports Insteon and UPB. For UPB there are a couple similar controllers including one caled MiLightStyle (spelling?) which is from PCS the original UPB vendor. They can all be attached to your home network, they get programmed via your local networked PC then you just leave them running and they have the built-in web server that lets you remotely connect. With respect to technology I think you'll find pros and cons to each of them. I would prefer not to push you in to one over another but if you have questions there are lots of really experienced users on the board here.

 

[ghurty]

Once I am having to use a controller, which one ends up being cheaper: z-wave or insteon. I understand that UPB (for all its benefits) can be the most expensive of the three.

I am trying to keep costs down here as much as possible while still having basic functionality.


Thanks

 

[JimS]

Monitoring the deadbolt - there have been a few threads (not sure if they were on this board or somewhere else) suggesting to use a small pushbutton in the jamb at the bottom of the hole the deadbolt goes into. Or glue a small magnet onto the deadbolt and use a magnetic switch. Or use some optical sensor. All require access behind the jamb. I am not aware of any commercial versions of this or of wireless although they may exist. A switch assembly with a small hole in the trim for wires to a surface mounted wireless box of some sort is probably your best bet and could be pretty low cost.

 

[ghurty]

Thanks

 

[naething]

I can't and won't speak to what technology is the best, but I use z-wave with a Vera 2 from Micasaverde. I love it z-wave and I love my Vera! I have found it to be very reliable and extendable. The Vera also has a great user community.

For a z-wave / Vera based solution:

1) Control the lights in 4 rooms

I have about 20 GE 45606 Dimmer Switches. They work well for me, there are plenty of other choices in z-wave dimmers. They are $45 or so. The Monster Cable outlet has been selling some IlluminEssence Dimmers for $19. They have been in and out of stock for about a month. I know nothing about those, but I hear they are OK.

2) Control one thermostat

There are about half a dozen z-wave thermostats from $59 up.

Vera 2: $239
Light Dimmers: 4x$45 = $180 ($80 if you get lucky with in stock IlluminEssence Dimmers)
Thermostat: $60

Total Cost: $479

That seems like a lot do to what you want. However, the Vera is very extendable and you can control it from the web or a smartphone (Android, iPhone, Windows 7). I have about 20 z-wave lights; a Denon A/V receiver; a Trane Thermostat; a DSC Security system with 19 door, window, and motion sensors; and an x10 cm15a with some x10 lights and motions sensors interfaced to my Vera. I also have various virtual devices representing the weather, wind conditions, etc. I am planning on integrating a sprinkler system (with either an etherrain or irrigationcaddy) and a Brultech ECM-1240 whole house power monitor.

Just for comparison a cheap alternative with X10:

Pogoplug v2 Pink (small Linux based device, $40, uses <5 watts) $40
X10 Light Switches WS12A / RWS17 / XPD): $10
X-10 TH2807 Thermostat Setback Controller: $10
X-10 cm19a: $10

Total cost: $100 ($60 to run this all from your computer and skip the embedded linux device)

I am not recommend that route at all! This is basically the cheapest way I can think of to accomplish what you mention for comparison. I don't know what a UPB or Insteon setup would run, or for that matter a z-wave setup with Hometroller.

 

[etc6849]

Z-Wave is probably the most widely used of the three and has 100's of devices to choose from. I'm not sure which is best, just that more manufacturers make z-wave stuff (which does tend to drive costs lower).

If you follow the links in my signature, you'll find free software for using Z-Wave. Basically you'd need Premise (free) and the open-source z-wave module/driver for Premise (also free).

 

[apostolakisl]

On such a small installation, a very significant percentage of you cost is going to be your controller. You are going to want to buy a good one since it will be the heart of your system and when you move to your new home in the future it will for sure move with you.

I really like my ISY. It isn't cheap but you can get it without all the bells and whistles and add them on later (most of the add-ons are firmware related so it is just a matter of paypaling the money to them and updating the firmware).

The ISY is the gold standard for Insteon. They support UPB as well. I assume it is pretty much the same device when controlling UPB but I haven't ever used it. UPB vs Insteon is a firmware change, not hardware.

Most of your full-function software solutions will cost just as much as an ISY or even a lot more and need to run on a PC. They will have prettier programming interfaces (since they have all the CPU of your PC at their disposal), and will be subject to the fickleness of a PC as well as its 100 watt or more power consumption. The full featured PC based controllers do tend to have more modules available for controlling things like cameras, intercoms, sound systems, and so forth (but all al-a-cart add on costs). ISY is going to control powerline controlled things (Insteon/UPB), certain thermostats, IR devices, and the Elk security/HA panels shortly. Since Elk has a lot of items that it can integrate with, if you go ISY/Elk route, you should gain full control of anything an Elk can talk to as well.

 

[majortom]

I think I have narrowed it down to: z-wave, UPB, or INSTEON.

Good starting point. While we each have our favorite, all should solve your problem.

The biggest key point over here is the price. I am looking for the most inexpensive option but that still works.

Let me suggest you consider two other important points. Based on what you have said, you eventually plan to leave your current house. Ease of restoring the system to standard lights (what you would either have to do or leave behind), and ease of dealing with a failure at 2 AM before your in-laws show up. (Given that you are not rewiring, this second may not be a big deal).

1) Control the lights in 4 rooms
2) Control one thermostat
3) I have no problem with having a computer on the whole time, but would look at options so I dont need to
4) Have the ability so that they work on a schedule but can be activated remotely (via web or smartphone)

Insteon will easily and cheaply meet your needs. Working with the ISY controller, Perceptive Automation's Indigo (for Mac) and several other software and/or hardware options will make set up and internet control easy.

One nice thing about this approach is that when you leave, you can chose to leave the switches in the walls and take your controller (ISY or equivalent) as it is not required to reprogram or operate the system. This means that what may be the most expensive component does not have to stay with the house. I like Insteon's dual band approach and now that most products are available with dual band options, I think it is a great solution.

 

[AlexCuster]

Mi Casa Verde's Vera 2 used with Intermatic CA600 switches is probably going to be your cheapest approach.

We've been selling quite a few CA600s they are cheap and reliable. Intermatic also makes a thermostat (CA8900) which comes in at an unbeatable price point.

As for the Vera, I was impressed with how easy it was to enroll devices, create rules, and remotely mange. Also until Sept 15th they have a $40 rebate if purchased from an authorized distributor.

 

[tmbrown97]

My signature has all my experience with UPB - I have roughly 60 switches in my house.

Things have changed a lot in the last few years - if I did it again tomorrow, I'd either stick with UPB or go Z-Wave. I prefer open protocols - unlike Insteon. I know before long I'll have a hybrid of z-wave and UPB, but for now UPB handles all my power related stuff; HVAC and irrigation are hardwired to the elk - which of course handles security; so I've got a pretty complete system here that I love. Z-Wave may come in for locks some day but I just installed Morning Industry's deadbolts specifically because they used Schlage keys (so they could be keyed alike) - and with a modified remote I still have control via the elk - though not as 100% intelligent as a kwikset version.

The Vera really looks awesome to me - I even bought the original version; I just never got it out of the box. When they get Elk M1 control I'll take a better look.

 

[Digger]

Todd i think the Vera pluggin for the ELK is out or at least in beta. I to have one sitting on the shelf for almost a year waiting. Just no time for HA projects.

 

[tmbrown97]

Yeah I saw that there was a beta driver - looked like it still had a ways to go. Likewise, I have too many projects going on to go looking for more.

 

[firewalledcomm]

Z-Wave is probably the most widely used of the three and has 100's of devices to choose from. I'm not sure which is best, just that more manufacturers make z-wave stuff (which does tend to drive costs lower).

If you follow the links in my signature, you'll find free software for using Z-Wave. Basically you'd need Premise (free) and the open-source z-wave module/driver for Premise (also free).

Does anyone know where I can now download Premise from? All of the links that I find no longer work.

Thanks