Whole Home

[drvnbysound]

Not exactly a Home Theater question, so I didn't want to post in there...
 
I've had a hack whole-home system for a number of years - using Zone 2 out of my AVR into a 6-zone speaker selector. Because of the complexity to turn on Zone2 of the AVR we don't use it all that often. I think if we could do so from our phones and/or select in-wall devices that we would use it more often simply with an easier to use [local] interface. Having said that I started looking at the Russound MCA-66 over a year ago and started looking at the HiFi2 earlier today. I wanted to get some feedback from you guys as to pros/cons of both systems... which I think is going to be much better than comparing spec sheets. Thoughts???
 
 

 

[wkearney99]

Heh.  I've had similar experiences dealing with AVR zones.  I've got a Denon X3000 that'd do a fine job of providing audio to patio speakers.  The trouble is the flaming hoops necessary to get it all working are just not worth the effort.  So low on the WAF-scale that I dare not even put it in front of her.  There's a Sonos Connect:Amp driving them, for now...
 
Meanwhile I've got in-wall boxes for Russound controllers, and wires tucked in the ceiling for speakers... and I've still not installed my gear.  
 
The upside to an on-wall controller is you know where it's going to be, and you're probably more likely to use it.  I'd have to GET AROUND to putting mine in!
 
But you eventually run into the problem of controlling audio content ends up being separate from volume levels.  Too much stuff fails to integrate the two.  Thus using a now-ancient Sonos controller (the water-resistant one) to handle the patio audio.  Meanwhile the rest of the house gets by with mediocre output from Amazon Echo units.  Their convenience is compelling... their fidelity... not so much...
 
Some day... some day... we'll get convergence!  Says the grizzled veteran with decades worth of devices from failed attempts littering his basement shelves...

 

[drvnbysound]

Yeah, a few zones that I know I/we would use a lot more often are the MBR/MBA and zone in our garage, likely even the ones on our back patio.
 
My MBR zone would benefit from an app controlled zone (i.e. turn on via phone while in bed), while our MBA zone would benefit from a in-wall device next to the vanity that we could turn on locally.
 
I was working in the garage today and wanted to turn on the speakers in there and had my phone with me, from which I could have turned on Zone2 on my AVR [via app], but didn't want to go back inside to adjust the speaker selector for only that zone - the convenience issue. The same is usually the case when we are in the back yard.
 
My other 2 current zones are kitchen and just above our front door (exterior). Since being in our home we rarely use the kitchen zone as it's adjacent to our living room with 5.1, but again I think this zone might be used more often if we had some form of a in-wall controller in the kitchen to activate that zone while cooking, etc.. The front door zone really was a novelty zone that is used for holiday themed music or when we know we have friends coming over for dinner - we'll turn that zone on so they are greeted with some music while they are waiting on us to answer the front door
 
Two main things that I've been debating about with the 2 systems mentioned above are form factor and cost. From a wiring perspective I kinda prefer the HiFi2 as I can keep everything inside a SMC and don't have to deal with any sort wire coming out of the wall (either extra cable length or additional connection points). Cost is what it is between the two and I obviously have no control over that, but always a consideration.
 
The Russound would be directly supported via the Apple-based eKeypad Pro app that I use for my Elk system now, so that provides a single interface for that vs. having to use yet-another app. That wouldn't be the case with the HiFi2 (as far as I can tell) unless I converted from Elk to HAI/Leviton - yet another consideration...

 

[picta]

I would go with HiFi2 if:
 
1. Need more than 8 zones
2. Have Leviton/Hai controller
 
In all other cases I would choose the Russound

 

[pete_c]

 
Here I am a happy camper with my old Russound stuff (and Russound keypads). 
 
Like their new stuff.
 
Explore the features of the MCA-Series controllers
 

 

[ecborgoyn]

I'm in the middle of installing a 'middle-of-the-road' WHA system.  I say middle-of-the-road, as it's not the expense of a Russound with installed/dedicated keypads.  The newest Russound h/w isn't DIY friendly, and at least one local dealer wasn't cooperative..
 
I fully agree that there are two phases of WHA control: source control and local volume control.  For a source, I got an Onkyo TX-8160 network receiver.  It provides two zones of source.  Since it's me and my wife in the house, two sources is sufficient (the dog doesn't get a choice).  The two zones are generally independent, at least for network streaming.  It has mobile Apps for control.  I initially looked at the Sonos stuff for sources, but the TX-8160 was a much better deal...
 
For amplification, distribution, and local control I have two of the Monoprice WHA matrix amps.  Not top-end, but sufficient for the WHA type of application.  I plan to use a RPi2 and mobile app for control in the future.  BUT I'm also deploying the control keypads around the house.  Not in walls, but rather on table-tops and desktops.  Thinking about controlling a WHA system, I can't envision always needing to 'fire-up' a mobile device just to tweak the volume in a zone..  So the local keypads work great for this.  They also control the source selection.  So with a few new UTP runs in some rooms, I'm able to deploy keypads throughout. 
 
Oh, and for speakers, I'm generally using existing bookshelf and floor-standing speakers.  Previously I had the poor-mans WHA with random receivers, speaker selectors, and line-level cabling...   I'm not installing any in-wall speakers.  I do have existing on-wall speakers in the patio room.
 
...  Just a preview of the system...  When done, I'll have eight amplified zones (speakers on the MP WHA devices) and two line-level zones (local amplifiers).  I'm about half-way done.  I need to wait for a bit warmer weather to be able to run cables through the attic for the second floor zones..
 
I hope this helps.

 

[JonW]

If you're looking to do any upgrades in the home theater area, the newer AVR's make this pretty easy.  I have a Denon AVR-X4100W that I use zone 3 on for the outside speakers.  Many of the new AVR's all have phone apps now, so it's real quick and easy to turn on zone 3 and select a source.  Additionally, I use one of the 12V out triggers from the AVR to trigger the power on my outside amp when zone 3 turns on/off.  I also use variable output on the analog to the outside amp so that I can adjust the volume from the Denon app on zone 3.

 

[wkearney99]

If you're looking to do any upgrades in the home theater area, the newer AVR's make this pretty easy.  I have a Denon AVR-X4100W that I use zone 3 on for the outside speakers.  Many of the new AVR's all have phone apps now, so it's real quick and easy to turn on zone 3 and select a source.  

 
I disagree.  The trouble with the AVRs, and I have some Denons (although not THIS year's model, but last).  The steps necessary to go between zones and source, especially if one of them is a network source or airplay, is tediously unreliable.  Denon's engineers just "don't get it".  They're great AVRs otherwise.
 
That and define "quick" when it comes to apps... and most especially when it comes to spouses, guests or children.  Honestly, I'd LOVE for it to work but it just... doesn't.
 
But I'm willing to "agree to disagree".

 

[Neurorad]

Is it feasible to add volume controls to some zones, for local control?  When I had an AVR feeding a speaker selector, the AVR was always on; I turned zones off at the VCs.
 
Worked well for a couple years, but I replaced the setup with a Nuvo system with keypads, for source control, and multiple sources.
 
If you can live without keypads, I think the new Nuvo platform should be considered too, if you can sign up as a dealer.  I'm a big fan of keypads, myself.
 
Not sure of the feasibility of running docked devices in kiosk mode as controllers, but they can be pretty affordable, for KPs in some zones.

 

[drvnbysound]

RE: In-wall Volume Controls...
 
Certainly. I have a number of in-room VCs now and those work fine. I have them wired into 3 of my 6 zones now.
 
Going back to a scenario I mentioned above, when I was in my garage this weekend and wanted to turn on that zone while I was out there. I know that on my speaker selector that I didn't have the garage zone turned on @ the selector and that other zones were probably turned on from the last time I used the system. At the time my wife and son were at home so if I were to activate my AVR Zone 2, other zones would have turned on, etc. I would have needed to physically go back into the home and adjust the speaker selector so that only the garage zone was on and go from there. I was being lazy and didn't want to go back inside to make those adjustments.
 
The Russound system and the Nuvo are very similar in that they can operate with or without keypads for each zone. In my case, it's easier for me to get Russound equipment that it is Nuvo, which is why I didn't mention Nuvo in the OP. Also, the eKeypad Pro add, which I currently use for Elk integration natively supports Russound, but not Nuvo.

 

[pete_c]

It was the volume control here in the 1980's (well in the old house) that got me started. It with an expansion of two receivers for two floors of the old house with mechanical switches / volume controls. 
 
Here it started with just a large amplifier, AB8SS, mechanical switches, a couple of cases of same style speakers and Leviton Digital volume controls using cat5e.   The local digital volume controls replaced the mechanical ones from the old house (well that and burning one up in one wall during a BBQ one day).
 
Concurrently did expand to the outside deck (mounting Russound speakers on brick was a real PITA and hiding the wires) and the garage (which was easy once I had installed a chase).
 
Well that and did add local amplifiers / local sources (sub zones) / mechanical AB switches along with digital keypads while expanding the zoned stuff from the Russound amps. All this originally was of a higher priority than automating lights or anything else and similar in a new home build. 
 
The idea of the zoned amplifier(s) came from a neighbor here showing me what he had done and helping a bit with some issues he had post installation.  He went with a Nuvo set up installed professionally.  Thing is that put his stuff on the media shelves in the great room of his home and it looked a bit busy.   I didn't do that rather I installed it all in the comm closet in the basement where it is never really seen.  Another neighbour (across the street) did similar with a zoned system and did use outside controls by the pool which did work very nicely for him.  (I didn't do outside controls on the deck).
 
Just this past weekend we had family over and I asked my son to pick a source for music (he picked some internet music service) and enabled the main floor of the house which worked ideally.  I never have seen issues with my son using the keypads as they are intuitive.
 
Kind of weird here but it's like using a Q-Tip (cotton swab) or the TIVO ing something with the DVR or the mention of a Russound system when really it is just a zoned amp.
 
It is difficult for me to compare stuff that I have versus stuff that I do not have; so of course I will say I like it and that it works for me.

 

[IVB]

if i were to do it all over again, i'd probably go with Sonos. Right now I have in-ceiling speakers that are good so its likely the Sonos Connect:Amp in a central location. Yes stupidly expensive vs just the Play:1, but the hidden speakers are nice.
 
No muss, no fuss, its all mainstream & commoditized. The niche solutions are too much of a pita.

 

[drvnbysound]

IVB,
 
Yeah, I looked at the Sonos solution about a year ago and just wasn't a fan of needing to have a Sonos device (amplifier) for each zone; that just seemed like a kludgly solution to me. I'm certainly a fan of space savings and needing multiple shelves of those just isn't a solution that I want to pursue. Space savings is really what got me looking into the HiFi2, where I could put everything into a SMC and eliminate the need for floor space.
 
Not that I'd have nearly as many zones as what I attached, but just not a fan of this form factor

 

[wkearney99]

The niche solutions are too much of a pita.

 
Sonos isn't exactly 'not niche' but it's certainly got wider distribution than Russound, et al.
 
The way things are going in emerging IoT circles the Sonos folks aren't exactly keeping up.  Lots of vendors are getting caught with their pants down, when it comes to IoT connectivity.  >cough< Lutron >cough<  Sonos' trend towards closed APIs and such has been a problem.  IFTTT ain't enough, as the latency has been too slow.
 
Truth be told, if they don't figure out Amazon Echo connectivity VERY soon they're going to be real trouble.

 

[IVB]

A) form factor irrelevant if its in a closet, like mine (or that guys). 
B )  *TOTALLY* agreed on Echo connectivity. I absolutely cannot stand the echo sound, and I have 2 of them / ordering a 3rd very soon. Its just a bridge to CQC and means for voice control, smartphones for control is two thousand and late ;-)
 
If Echo came out with a product with line out capabilities, then any signal sensing amp & speaker of your choice would do. And you could rack mount all the amps, make them digital so they're itty bitty, and bada bing Sonos is in deep trouble. Alas it requires running the line out back to the SMC but we're all old pros at that by now.