Whole house automation over CAT5

Zer0fun1

Member
I have been scouring the net for days now looking for any good information about building a whole-house automation system based on CAT5 or better cable.

I'm not eager to implement x10 or radio-based systems and would prefer to staybaway from closed standards.

Please point me tob invent right direction !

Thank you!
 
I think you need to tell us exactly what you are trying to accomplish, in order for someone to point you in the right direction.
 
I doubt every component you would want to use is going to have TCP/IP interface. However, I regularly use cat5e cable to run serial connections between devices. A serial port is much more commonly used in the automation world - at least for the last decade or two. Perhaps we'll see all TCP/IP in the future, but it hasn't happened yet across the industry.

You can also use cat5e cable to route some low power sources, relay controls, even connect security sensors. But the best solution is to plan your needs/goals and run the applicable wire for the situation - IE run 22/2 or 18/4 ,etc for security needs rather than cat5e wire.
 
New construction instalation here...

I would LOVE to wire it up as pure IP network, but again I would prefer not to use any sort of wireless systems. My question was a bit more general, I guess:

I need to run cable. I have no immediate plans of hooking up any equipment to it right away, but will in the next year or so.

What I mean by using CAT5 cable for a whole-house automation is rather simple: I want to know if I can use CAT5 to connect the control circuitry, the nerve endings if you will, together: e.g. I'd like to turn on 120v light fixture remotely (in the case of a light fixture I would also like to be a be able to do it physically and would like for the control circuitry to notice this); I would lime to open up blinds based on some sensor or programed input; I would like to turn power on and off to any wall socket; turn on appliances; sensing of open doors and windows; sensing personal identification, etc...

The brain of this system will most likely report to a Linux-based control center with ACLs and GUI.

Anything that plugs into a wall socket will not be considered because it looks horrible. I was envisioning a low-voltage control circuitry in a dual-gang box with high-voltage controlling the high-voltage side.

I didn't mean that I wanted to run audio and video through CAT5. I kno that there are specific cables that are used for this.

The network cable that is being laid in now is CAT7 and will be separate from anything used for automation. This house will handle tons of internal traffic and CAT7 was an expensive choice, but necessary for multigigabit pipes running along the house.

I am most familiar with IP networking so any hard-wired system that works as such will be the easiest choice for me. I understand that there are radio/wireless based systems that run as an IP network, but I am not interested in wireless products. I would accept a system that uses CAT5 cable, but does not yet use IP because later I can slap some RJ45 on them and connect IP-based equipment.

I am a home automation newbee.
 
You could probably do it, if you select your automation carefully. It would use CAT5, it would not however be ethernet in a lot of cases and you may not be able to terminate it according to normal standards in all cases (T568A/T568B). And for things like security sensors, it might not be the best idea, you would be wasting a lot of wire and termination would be more difficult. And just because you are using CAT5 doesn't mean it is not proprietary. I think your requirements to rely on just CAT5 and "standards" are going to be more expensive and "non-standard" for the HA industry and probably limit you in the long run.

But for example you could do control of blinds over CAT5, you might be able to do ethernet or RS232/RS485 over your cat5, but you might not be able to run the power over it. For lighting there are some hardwired lighting solutions that can use CAT5 for control if you are willing to spend the money. For security you can likely run your keypads and thermostat control (RS232/RS485) over CAT5 maybe your speakers, and relay wiring if they are low enough power. Some things like LV smokes require firewire (18/2, red color) by building code in some places. You could also probably do audio and video distribution over CAT5 with careful planning.
 
I run everything over 23AWG CAT6. $80 for 1000 feet of it from Monoprice, that's cheap enough for me. I terminated it all to 110 punchdown blocks. I run power for glass breaks and motions over it, use it for door and window switches/sensors, the RS-485 bus, and whatever else I can. If I'm unsure that the 23AWG can handle the power for a particular device, I'll double up a couple of pairs. I even run HDMI and audio over it.

The bonus is that if any of this stuff ever goes IP, I already have the cable in place.

I don't think I would ever run cat5. If you're going through the trouble, run something that isn't already obsolete.
 
You could run cat5/cat6 and homerun every single outlet gang and swtich gang in your house and be ready to do whatever. Just becuase it is cat5 doesn't mean you have to use it for IP but you will have that option. It would be a ton of wires all going to your homerun location but should someone start making IP enabled switches you will be in business. There are non-ip switches that have hardwired connections for the automation part that cat5 could communicate, I don't believe anyone is currently making IP controlled switches. Seems like IP would be pricey switches to build and probably use more electricity in standby mode than the current technologies.

If you do run cat5 to every box, remember that you have to separate out the low voltage wires from 120 wires per code. You might just run the wire and leave it hanging in the wall behind the box until you decide what you are going to do. The inspector won't let you pull it into the box unless you partition off a low voltage section of the box.

Personally, I would stick with established technologies like UPB or Insteon.
 
Nice. This is the discussion I was hoping to generate!

I don't mind not running power over CAT. And as I've mentioned I'm already running CAT7 so it is not out of the question to use it instead of CAT5. I mentioned CAT5 because most are familiar with it.

As far as running power, mics, speakers, over CATx - I will have to look into requirements such as resistance and shielding, I've seen units that offer HDMI over CATx, but I think they are lossy, but it's off the top of my head and O have no numbers or comparisons.

Again, my post is about control circuitry over CATx.

I would pay extra for equipment that uses IP over CATx.

Again CATx is just my preferred medium.

Can you point me to those switches please?
 
What do you guys know about DMX512 lighting for residential? DMX512 can be ran over Ethernet (Ethernet not CATx).
 
HEre is a tidbit about power over Ethernet to control lights:

http://low-powerdesign.com/sleibson/2010/03/13/redwood-systems-unstealths-power-over-ethernet-lighting-systems/
 
Well, what you're trying to do definitely seems bleeding edge. I don't mean to p*ss in your cheerios, but it does sound like you're trying to force things into your desired technology rather than learn and work with what's out there. It's probably going to cost you a fortune, and you'll be dealing with systems that just aren't mature yet. Things will go there, but it'll be a while. There's future-planning, then there's just stubbornness.

I've never heard of anyone running Cat 7 - Cat 6 can handle anything you'll see in your home in the next 15+ years; unless you plan on spending a LONG time there, it's overkill. Cat 7 was mainly conceived to handle 10GB over coper OVER 100M. If you're not living in Bill Gates' house, that's likely not going to be an issue; 10GB over Copper works fine on Cat 6 - and you probably can't afford the switches for home-use anyways yet - or for the next 5-10 years. Cat 7 just seems incredibly pointless; if you need 10GB over 100M, why the hell wouldn't you just use Fiber? I'm running 10GB fiber much further than that; and it's more flexible and cheaper.

A smarter strategy usually includes running Cat5e/6 to the places where you know it'll suit your needs - or the most appropriate cables (usually 18-22/2 or 4) - that's fine and always will be for smokes, motion sensors, drapery controls, etc. And regardless of what your house is wired for, you have to realize that the market will follow what the rest of the world has - which will be a need for a mix of wired/wirelss, and compatibility with what's mass-installed, which is Cat 5E and Cat 6. If your drapery controls become IP enabled, it'll happen one of two ways: 1) All your drapes will wire to a central controller via 18/4 or similar, and that controller will become IP enabled; or 2) the drapery controllers will have ZigBee or ZWave in them; they'll still receive power over the 18/4, but now at the motor there'll be a wireless controller that talks to the house.

When it comes to household wiring, it's generally far smarter and cheaper to design the house aroung good conduit systems that way you're immune to changing technology; What happens if Cat 7 never goes anywhere and people move to fiber instead? You spent WAY more than you had to and you're still up a creek.

It's worth taking another look; your method of future-proofing is still betting way too much today on a technology that may not exist later; and paying for it now; rather than paying a tiny bit more for conduit, paying for the cheaper wire today, and having the options for the future.

And last - if you get your drapes or lights working right today, with an interface to IP, then who really cares? Are you going to rip it out just for fun later? If it works, stick with it until a major remodel, when you can run the now-appropriate wire and technologies. That said, it sounds like you should look at the hardwired systems for lighting since you seem dead-set against wireless.
 
I appreciate your advice. I'm curious how you know what hardware our LANs are running and if you think that we should junk our enterprise equipment before EoS for a simple 2wire switch?

CAT7 is needed simply because it will still be bleeding edge for the next 10 years.

As far as the control circuitry for the HAS I'm positive CAT6 is sufficient, but if you have as much CAT7 as we do, you would wonder why would we bother ordering CAT6.

Any sort of wireless/radio systems are strictly prohibited. Yep, no WiFi! Darn, I know. Same goes for x10-type of setup where control circuitry travels through the power lines.

If this was easy I'd google it and not bother signing up, posting, and replying. It's challenging! :)
 
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