Why are there so many redundant home automation platforms being launched?

[jlegault]

All the older systems out there (CQC, Homeseer, Elk, HAI, etc) are falling short of the expectations of the next generation of DIYers (easy, sexy, and next gen devices), so I'm not surprised with all the new shots on goal being taken. "IOT" is great buzzword at the moment, and lots of capital frothing around it. 
 
I have yet to see anything has elegant or as well thought out as an Elk M1 - which has become very stale IMO. I wish Elk would go for another round of funding and invest in bringing their platform (speed and connectivity) and most importantly their software and integration options into the 21st century. I have played with everything now, most recently CQC and the ISY controller and still it's not there. ISY has a great vision, but their software architecture is terrible (I don't understand why a zwave light is different than any other light device, but it is. I also don't understand why an elk thermostat is not just a normal thermostat....which tells me they are bolting things onto a brittle object model as they go along). 
 
I didn't appreciate until now how much curation and thought homeseer put in in order to get Zwave work well and fully featured. I'm just sorry they became so unstable and lacked a good/easy to maintain end-user interface - I don't plan to go back due to the sheer frustration I went through trying to keep it running for my family. 
 
The closest I have seen to the vision I have for automation is roomie remote - though for a very narrow slice of it. It works amazingly well out of the box and they have added some very simple hardware (Globalcache OEM'd) that anyone including my wife could setup to distribute IR control. The UI is kid and wife friendly, supports multiple rooms from a single interface,  with virtually no work to setup. And most importantly it just freaking works - no excuses, no delays, no bugs, no instability, no host OS issue. 
 
Someone will nail it. I can't wait. 

 

[pete_c]

Here have over the years utilized IR blasters and such but never have integrated it with my automation.  I did attach that whole IR communications to powered (sort of like POE) RG6 cables which I installed originally all over the house.  I did go with three sets of RG6 cables way back with one being for satellite (carrying voltage), in house video and external video.  I still utilize the internal video for HD / SD mixes of video per channel for all over the home as it works fine today.   Thinking I initially started to play with whatever the Tivo boxes modifications were for the IR blasting; teaching my Tivo boxes to talk to my satellite STB's for recording stuff; it was a PITA do to and personally IR stuff is not a sure bet versus direct serial communcations to devices you want to automation.
 
The one family room LCD / multimedia set up is arranged for WAF (she keeps all of the remotes in use) and me using my multipurpose Logitech remote.  It has been like this for years.  No phones, no tablets, no touchscreen IR control; but that is us here.
 
Well too the Russound Zoned audio keypads all blast IR just fine if I want to use it and I do not.
 
Yup; here I see the next generation of automation newbees  feeling comfortable with the phones (having slept with them for years), cloud applications, smart watches easy peasy button stuff; with nary a thought to the grey areas as the stuff just works fine for them. 

 

[picta]

Yup; here I see the next generation of automation newbees  feeling comfortable with the phones (having slept with them for years), cloud applications, smart watches easy peasy button stuff; with nary a thought to the grey areas as the stuff just works fine for them. 

 
Speaking of grey areas, here is one of a very few publications in the sea of the "wow factor" press, that address the dark side of mobil apps. The findings show that many apps connect to ad-related sites and tracking sites while some connect to much more dubious sites that are associated with malware, and the users are unaware of what's going on. Cheap or free applications have to be payed for somehow, and many steal the user's information to do so.
 
http://www.technologyreview.com/view/537186/the-truth-about-smartphone-apps-that-secretly-connect-to-user-tracking-and-ad-sites

 

[pete_c]

A lot of this mobile stuff comes from some 14 years ago relating to folks being buried under buildings and slowness of the implementation of the technologies (while already old) relating to pin pointing a phone via radio / gps triangulation.  Many folks died while still chatting on the cell phones buried under tons of rubble at the time.  There was a worry that cropped up at the time about protecting dead bodies (they couldn't talk on their cell phones)  with live people (not a fun job for those folks) as folks took teeth and jewelery from lifeless bodies for their personal mementos.

One of the follow ups relating to this stuff was a telco thumb press to fix it right in the name of life and safety stuff.  They did.

Yup the prevalence of the technologies have ventured now to the dark side a bit relating to advertising, big databases, tracking et al.  It has been around a long time.  It's much faster these days with 5G wireless connectivity and small and very fast little hand held computers. Years ago best positioning was maybe 20-30 feet; nowadays its just a few feet (well less than 10 which is some neato stuff).  Folks (lots of malfeasance lately - personally a shame, sad reflections) do take advantage of this stuff.

Moving from Palm OS (late 1990's) testing Windows Mobile OS in the early 2000's I had an application which went to a map database that I kept at home.  I was testing and playing with 3G and do recall somebody at a meeting asking me where the antenna was on the phone at the time. The application configuration allowed me to create events based on my location and mostly I just would auto forward the phone to a landline in a building as the phone didn't work well inside of the building.  Later on the telco's did put repeaters through out the building which worked well.

 

[ChrisCicc]

I have yet to see anything has elegant or as well thought out as an Elk M1 - which has become very stale IMO. I wish Elk would go for another round of funding and invest in bringing their platform (speed and connectivity) and most importantly their software and integration options into the 21st century. I have played with everything now, most recently CQC and the ISY controller and still it's not there. ISY has a great vision, but their software architecture is terrible (I don't understand why a zwave light is different than any other light device, but it is. I also don't understand why an elk thermostat is not just a normal thermostat....which tells me they are bolting things onto a brittle object model as they go along). 

 
The problem you are seeing is hardware companies not understanding how to use software to better their user experience. It's an age old problem in tech - some get it, some don't... 

 

[macromark]

I didn't appreciate until now how much curation and thought HomeSeer put in in order to get Zwave work well and fully featured. I'm just sorry they became so unstable and lacked a good/easy to maintain end-user interface - I don't plan to go back due to the sheer frustration I went through trying to keep it running for my family. 

Jacy - thanks for the mention.  Yes, Z-Wave support has always been a monumental task because of the sheer complexity of the protocol and the continuous stream of new products with manufacture-specific features. However, it's where the bulk of the action is now in HA, so it will continue to be a strategically important protocol for us for the foreseeable future. On that subject, I'm happy to report that, as of yesterday, HS3 is the first and only (AFAIK) Z-Wave Plus certified stand-alone software program available. We'll be announcing this more formally next week.
 
Having said that, I am sorry to hear you experienced instability and frustration with our program.. to the point of discontinuing use.  Obviously, that's not what we're shooting for!  If you're inclined to share any of your issues, please PM me and I'll help any way I can.

 

[pete_c]

Yeah here have been playing with the new Homeseer Z-Wave + stuff.  I am impressed at the new granularity of Z-Wave Plus. 
 
The Homeseer Z-Troller  / Homeseer 2/3 was always stable for me in all of the years I used it. 
 
Here in the Midwest I just have all metal conduit and metal boxes with metal covers (mudplates) which can ding RF stuff and the walls of my basement are all masonry which doesn't really help for wireless things.
 
I was able to assimilate a Z-Wave + node last week pointing the node to my Z-Wave + device at around 50-60 feet; freaking me out that it worked. 

 

[Dean Roddey]

Z-Wave is stupidly difficult to support, because (as I've said a number of times before) it was never meant to be supported via third parties. So there's no box you talk to that simplifies things. The automation system becomes a node on the network, and has to deal with all of the complexities of the protocol. The VRC0P is an attempt to provide such a box, but it's a very simplified interface and very slow for some important stuff. And of course Leviton also has to deal with all of that complexity, without having the insider knowledge that the manufacturer does.
 
Compare that to things like the ISY or RA2, where the manufacturers provide a gateway type box, that has a simplified but sufficiently powerful control protocol, and it makes all the difference for supporting those products. They are vastly easier to support than Z-Wave.
 
But of course individuals don't know (or care) that they are rewarding the least automation friendly consumer level product, so they don't base their decisions on that. And they probably still wouldn't even if they knew. So there's not really any pressure on Zen-Sys to provide an official interface. They get the benefits of automation systems supporting their product, but also get 100% deniability if anything doesn't work.

 

[ChrisCicc]

But of course individuals don't know (or care) that they are rewarding the least automation friendly consumer level product, so they don't base their decisions on that. And they probably still wouldn't even if they knew. So there's not really any pressure on Zen-Sys to provide an official interface. They get the benefits of automation systems supporting their product, but also get 100% deniability if anything doesn't work.

 
I agree with this, but I think it's more on the manufacturers who use Z-Wave, than on ZenSys. If the manufacturers don't more or less settle on common profiles, eventually Z-Wave will be replaced by Thread or something similar in the future as it's much easier to implement and fixes Z-Wave's weaknesses. For ZenSys, I think the cat is out of the bag, nothing they can do at this point... 

 

[macromark]

Z-Wave is stupidly difficult to support, because (as I've said a number of times before) it was never meant to be supported via third parties. So there's no box you talk to that simplifies things. The automation system becomes a node on the network, and has to deal with all of the complexities of the protocol. The VRC0P is an attempt to provide such a box, but it's a very simplified interface and very slow for some important stuff. And of course Leviton also has to deal with all of that complexity, without having the insider knowledge that the manufacturer does.

Dean - Our A2Z-Link module is probably pretty close to the "box" you're referring to.  It does all the Z-Wave mgmt and may be controlled with ASCII or JSON commands. Unlike the VRCOP, it's a network addressable device and will function as a Z-Wave primary controller.  Support is included for the latest Z-Wave command classes.  We introduced this at CEDIA last year.

 

[Dean Roddey]

It looks interesting. One suggestion I'd make (which the ISY uses) is to support a persistent HTTP connection with unsolicited events being transmitted. Of course you could use a second port for that to avoid complications. It makes it much easer for the automation system to respond very quickly to incoming messages. It allows you to keep the HTTP format, but avoids all the overhead of polling.

 

[pete_c]

I admit here I have been slow on the uptake of wireless Z-Wave battery operated stuff and mostly have tested with lamp / appliance modules here.  First testing of battery operated automated widgets was with Zigbee here two years ago.
 
Relating the the Leviton automated lighting; my OmniPro II sees X10, UPB and Z-Wave as a unit and mostly to me I see them that way and really do not pay attention what protocal the device it using. 
 
Relating to Homeseer mostly kind of do similiar with sections of the home definitions and not really paying attention to what automation module does what.  As long as it works I do not pay attention or even watch the transport much these days. 
 
I do see that older technologies are evolving and becoming better (powerline, hybrid wireless and powerline and wireless). 

 

[NeverDie]

 I'm happy to report that, as of yesterday, HS3 is the first and only (AFAIK) Z-Wave Plus certified stand-alone software program available. We'll be announcing this more formally next week.

Congrats!
 
So that we can better appreciate your accomplishment, what exactly is required to be Z-Wave Plus certified (as compared to those who aren't)?

 

[pete_c]

Well here it is directly from Z-WaveAlliance dot org
 
Z-Wave Plus™ Certification
 

Z-Wave Plus™ is a new certification program designed to help consumers identify products that take advantage of the recently introduced 'Next Gen' Z-Wave hardware platform, also know as 500 Series or 5th Generation Z-Wave. Z-Wave Plus certified solutions feature  a selected set of extended features and capabilities that enhance the end user experience and make Z-Wave installations even faster and easier to install and set up.​

 ​

Z-Wave has led the market in interoperable smart devices for the home since the first Z-Wave product was certified in 2004. With the introduction of the Next-Gen, Z-Wave 500 series hardware platforms, Z-Wave saw its ecosystem bolstered with new capabilities, including increased range, extended battery life, Over The Air upgrading (OTA), additional RF channels and more -- all of which are fully backwards compatible with existing Z-Wave products.​

 ​

Features

• 50% improvement in battery life
• 67% improvement in range
• 250% more bandwidth
• Three RF channels for improved noise immunity and higher bandwidth
• New Plug-n-Play Network-wide Inclusion feature
• Improved self-healing and fault tolerance with Explorer Frame feature
• Standardized method for Over the Air firmware updates (OTA)
• Improved product information capture for product certification database

FAQ
 
What is the difference between a Z-Wave and a Z-Wave Plus product?
 
Z-Wave Plus products make use of the latest advancements in Z-Wave technology.  These advancements provide for longer battery life, faster operation, better RF coverage and easier installation.  Classic Z-Wave products may take advantage of some of these newer advancements but are not required to use all of the latest technology.  It is important to note that there over 20 million classic Z-Wave products in use every day and these products meet the needs of most applications satisfactorily.
 
Will Z-Wave Plus products work with classic Z-Wave products?
 
Yes, Z-Wave Plus products are fully backward compatible with classic Z-Wave products.
 
Why Z-Wave Plus now and not from the beginning of Z-Wave?
 
Twelve years of market experience and continuous development of the Z-Wave technology have brought about several improvements to the underling communications technology.  Recent advancements in micro-chip performance have made applying these improvements both possible and cost-effective.
 
Does Z-Wave Plus cost more?
 
Not really. As with most technologies, performance continues to increase and cost stays about the same.  There may be some slight difference in price between a Z-Wave Plus product and a classic Z-Wave product, but these differences have more to do with added features than the cost of the underlining technology.
How do I know I’m getting a Z-Wave Plus product?
 
Z-Wave Plus certified products are easily identified by these Marks that appear on the product and product packaging.

 

 

[ChrisCicc]

We have the Series 500 driver from Zensys and will be implementing in an update soon. Once complete, we'll be submitting for certification as well. While the average consumer probably isn't aware of the certification, installers and builders are...