Wire UPB Lighting

edgeco

New Member
This may seem like a very basic question and I hope that someone out there can help me. I would like to know how to wire a Simply Automated US2-40 light switch to a light. The light is where all of the wiring is connected so I have just two wire and a ground coming from the light to the switch. I know that I need a neutral so I thought I could use one only it is on a different circuit (I don't know if that matters). Here is how I have it connected now:

Switch...............................Light
Black from switch to...........Black on the light
White from switch to...........Neutral on different circuit
Brown from switch to..........White on the light
Brown/White Capped
Red/White Capped
Grounds connected.

The light is currently "on" but I have no control to turn it off. The only thing that happens when I turn it off is that the blue led on the switch turns on nothing else. Thank you in advance for any help.
 
This may seem like a very basic question and I hope that someone out there can help me. I would like to know how to wire a Simply Automated US2-40 light switch to a light. The light is where all of the wiring is connected so I have just two wire and a ground coming from the light to the switch. I know that I need a neutral so I thought I could use one only it is on a different circuit (I don't know if that matters). Here is how I have it connected now:

Switch...............................Light
Black from switch to...........Black on the light
White from switch to...........Neutral on different circuit
Brown from switch to..........White on the light
Brown/White Capped
Red/White Capped
Grounds connected.

The light is currently "on" but I have no control to turn it off. The only thing that happens when I turn it off is that the blue led on the switch turns on nothing else. Thank you in advance for any help.

It might be wired several different ways, but first of all you need to have the wires at the switch, plus ground, or it won't work.

So you took out a plain switch, right? First the neutral. In the back of the box you should find two or more white wires connected together with a wirenut on them. That is the neutral. You have that right? Take off the wirenut and if no wire is stuck in it, you can usually use it again. If not get a new yellow one. The white SA switch connects to all the other wires.

Next you have the two wires that used to be connected to the switch. One is black and the other may be black or another color. If its black and another color your set. Connect the black wire to the switch black wire using a red or yellow wirenut.

The other previous switch wire connects to that brown on the SA switch.

Next you need to connect the ground. This is the green wire that connects to the bare wires. I'm assuming you have bare wires to connect to.

If you have two black wires connected to original switch, you need to determine which is power and which goes to the light.

Also, really, if you don't know what you are doing, and it sounds like you might not, it would be wise to hire an electrician to install them or at least explain in person how to connect them. You can also get an electrical inspector to check your work.

Cap other wires.
 
The light is currently "on" but I have no control to turn it off. The only thing that happens when I turn it off is that the blue led on the switch turns on nothing else. Thank you in advance for any help.

First... I seem to remember getting fooled by the wire colors the first time I connected a Web Mountain SW-7 (same body as the US-240). I can't remember now exactly what it was -- maybe the brown was very close to looking black, or something. Double check your connections at the switch.

Second: did you change anything at the light fixture?
 
I have it wired the way that you say, black on the switch to black on the light, and white on the light to brown on the switch, grounds to ground, but I don't have a neutral on that circuit, I'm using a neutral from a different circuit. Am I able to do that?
 
I have it wired the way that you say, black on the switch to black on the light, and white on the light to brown on the switch, grounds to ground, but I don't have a neutral on that circuit, I'm using a neutral from a different circuit. Am I able to do that?

That should work. Crossing circuits isn't generally a good idea, but the amount of current the US-240 uses is so small that it isn't going to make any difference. Possibly the circuit is connected incorrectly at the light fixture. Pull the fixture and take a look inside that box. The way it should be connected is:

* Black coming from the circuit breaker (the black that's always hot) connected to the black going to the switch.
* White coming from the switch connected to the hot side (black wire or brass screw) of the fixture.
* White coming from the circuit breaker connected to the neutral side of the fixture.
* Grounds connected together.

The other possibility is that the triac in the US-240 is blown. It's common for triacs to fail shorted.
 
I have it wired the way that you say, black on the switch to black on the light, and white on the light to brown on the switch, grounds to ground, but I don't have a neutral on that circuit, I'm using a neutral from a different circuit. Am I able to do that?

O.K. Why do you think the neutral is from another circuit? How old is your house? I this the original wiring or something the former owners put in? Not having the neutral would be unusual if the house is under 15 - 20 years old. Also if this is a new house, is this a bedroom, bathroom, or outdoor area? If it is you can't use another circuit, if it is you can but really shouldn't. I can get more into it, but lets do this right if we can.
 
As a point of full disclosure, I do NOT use UPB. But what you have sounds like a very common method for wiring and the wire you have from the light to the switch is called a switch leg. If one assumes that wiring was previously done by standard methods, your wire setup could work. But I would not do this.

First, using a neutral from a different circuit is a code violation. As a more practical matter, it could introduce some safety issues. It could also damage your switch. If it were my house, I would be trying to find a way to get a neutral from the light circuit to the switch.

It sounds like you think you can snake a wire from another location, but that it would be difficult to get a wire from the light. Correct? If this is the case, you can consider powering the whole light from the other location. Run your romex from the the other location, hook black (line) to black, Neutral (white) to white, and ground to ground. At the switch, hook black to the new wire black, white to the new wire white, and brown (swithed load) to the old wire black. Old wire white should be joined to the new wire white with the switch. Of course, join all the grounds together, including that of the switch. Before doing this, however, make sure you assess the devices on this circuit and make sure you have sufficient capacity.

Remove the light to gain access to the wiring. Identify the wire from the switch. Take the black and hook it to one of the light wires. Attach white to the other. Join the ground of the fixture to the bare copper. The wire that originally supplied power should have all conductors capped.

With regards to ano's concerns about attaching a white wire to a hot wire, this is technically correct. The color white is reserved for neutral. However, sometimes it is necessary to repurpose wires, so if you ever need to do something like this, make sure you reidentify this wire by changing it's color. Wrap the white wire in black (or red) tape. Paint it black. Use a permanent marker. Somehow, you would need to change the wire color from white to another (avoid green - reserved for ground). I suspect the original electrician did something to identify the white wire as hot.

Have fun!
 
Out of curiosity, I also found that there are available fixture-mounted UPB devices. Given this, you have an additional option.

If the cost of an additional device is worth it to you to avoid having to snake wires through your walls, you could simply install a fixture-mounted control at the light (which would control the light itself), use the existing wires between the light and switch as line, neutral, and ground, and mount your new switch in place of the old using the line, neutral, and ground of the existing wires..

In this scenerio, the switch would not be directly controlling the load, but would be "linked" to the fixture module. Accordingly, the switch brown wire simply capped.

Good luck.
 
Yes, that is what I have is a switch leg wiring. At the switch which is a double gang, I have two lights each on a different circuit, and it would be easy for me to take the neutral wire from the other switch. I do not want to have a code violation, as this house has new wiring that is only about five years old. I have no access at this particular light to pull a neutral from the light location to the switch. I think it may just be easier to buy a wire in fixture model to get to my neutral that is available at the light.

Also, the brown is connected to the load on the light due to switch leg wiring.
 
* White coming from the switch connected to the hot side (black wire or brass screw) of the fixture.


A white wire is NEVER connected to a hot wire. The switches BROWN wire connects to the lamp Hot.

It's a switch loop. With conventional romex, there's no way to do it without using a white as a hot somewhere. The NEC specifically allows this; you are supposed to paint the ends of the white wire black to indicate that it's not really a neutral. Since painting the wire is a pain, most authorities that I know of will allow wrapping a piece of black tape around the white wire, near the ends, to indicate that it's hot.
 
First, using a neutral from a different circuit is a code violation. As a more practical matter, it could introduce some safety issues. It could also damage your switch. If it were my house, I would be trying to find a way to get a neutral from the light circuit to the switch.

Not necessarily. If the neutral is for another circuit on the same phase, it's allowed in many places. Some contractors routinely do this to save money on wire, and then charge the same for the job as if they had done it "correctly." If it's your only option, then it's your only option. But I would try to find an alternative. If you end up doing this, you must keep track of which circuits are involved, and then cut both breakers in the event you want to work on one of them. I would get a red marker and draw a line between the two breakers in the box to indicate that the neutrals are "hot" on both when one of them is on. You will want to verify that this meets code in your area also. If your house burns down for any reason, insurance companies will frequently use any excuse they can as to why they shouldn't have to pay.

My basement is unfinished, so I can still run new wire/circuits if I need to. You may or may not have that luxury. Luckily, I have neutrals in every switch box though.
 
Lets step back and stop talking about neutral sharing and relabeling neutral wires as hot. At this time we don't know if either apply here.

If your house is 5 years old, there is no reason it shouldn't have a neutral in the switch box FOR EACH BRANCH. Yes, I'm well aware of shared neutrals to save wires, and unconventional wiring practices, but those are the exceptions and not the rules. A 5-year old house should contain all the neutrals you need in the switch box.

gradcho before you wire/change anything and risk damage, fire or death, lets just see what you have. You say two switches. I'm assuming both regular switches with two terminals each? And in the box, near the back, you find some white wires with a wire-nut on them? How many wires are fastened together? You don't see a second set of white wires also with a wire-nut on them?

Now something has you believing both switches are on different circuits? Is that because you turned the power off of one and the other switch still worked? Its possible you do have a shared neutral which is certainly within code, but its not used often.

BEFORE you do anything, lets take the time to learn exactly what you have instead of trial-and-error.

Now, the switches you removed. Did they each have two black wires going to them, or did one or both have a black wire, and a white wire?
 
If your house is 5 years old, there is no reason it shouldn't have a neutral in the switch box FOR EACH BRANCH. Yes, I'm well aware of shared neutrals to save wires, and unconventional wiring practices, but those are the exceptions and not the rules. A 5-year old house should contain all the neutrals you need in the switch box.

If the box only has a switch loop coming to it, there is no neutral unless the electrician pulls 3-conductor cable. Arguably, that should be the standard, but it costs more, so most builders won't do it and most homeowners won't pay for it. There is no NEC requirement that every box have a neutral in it.
 
If your house is 5 years old, there is no reason it shouldn't have a neutral in the switch box FOR EACH BRANCH. Yes, I'm well aware of shared neutrals to save wires, and unconventional wiring practices, but those are the exceptions and not the rules. A 5-year old house should contain all the neutrals you need in the switch box.

If the box only has a switch loop coming to it, there is no neutral unless the electrician pulls 3-conductor cable. Arguably, that should be the standard, but it costs more, so most builders won't do it and most homeowners won't pay for it. There is no NEC requirement that every box have a neutral in it.

Cornutt is right, I have no neutral going to the switch box the neutral is up at the light location. The electrician only has a 2-conductor cable + ground to the switch junction box. I do think that the triac is out on the SA US240 becuase I had an extra HAI switch laying around and that will turn the light off and on using the shared neutral. I am going to go with your advice to not share the neutral on a different circuit and ordered a SA wire in module relay. I will then use a auxillary switch or 6 button controller at the light switch junction box as they will not require a neutral. Is that correct? I sure hope so, thanks so much guys for all your help.
 
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