Wiring my house for Network! Yet another thread!

DELInstallations said:
What you DON'T want to do is drill straight through the double joist that is going to be boxing in each side of the stairs. Usually the cabling is angled through the bottom plate, around the joist and angled back into the stud bay below. Drilling straight through is going to take out all the meat of the joist.
 
Usually, it's pretty tough to get a large mass of cabling to a spot under the stairs without multiple smaller holes (3/4 or 1" max) and angling from the top plate of the wall enclosing the stairs to form a "closet" space under them and to the joist space or stud bay above.
 
Sounds like you've got glue-lams or TGI's in your house? If so, proceed with caution.
Understood, I am NOT drilling through the joist, that would mean drilling more than 6" and I have drilled 2" from bottom and 2" from top and found a hollow opening from the top.
 
I think a 1/2" or 3/4" hole should be good enough for the cables I am trying to fish.
 
What the heck is glue-lams or TGIs? Yes, I can google but a one liner would be helpful.
 
-AM
 
With the mess I have created in the area under the stairs, I am tempted to rip out all the drywall and do my work.
 
Put up new drywall after its all said and done....
 
What do you guys suggest?
 
-AM
 
Removing the drywall gives you the advantage of seeing the framing.   If you're like most of us, that drywall won't get replaced for a long time.  
 
Hanging out here for as long as I have..I agree that it would not get replaced for a long time :) But since its in an isolated area under the stairs and away from eyes....I might be able to get away..
 
I clicked a couple of pics to upload but the image size if too big...
 
How do you guys reduce the file size to upload pics (my min default from phone is 1.5M)
 
-AM
 
far corner is the secuity box and the one closer to door hole is for network box..
 
Please ignore all the mess :)
 
 

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New hole in relation to exisiting security wire at the top of the stairs...
 

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RAL said:
I'm not sure I completely follow where your alarm panel is and how the existing wire is run from the attic down to there.
 
Is the panel in the basement under the stairs?  Does the wire from the attic drop down into the wall that encloses the stairs on the second floor?
 
Typically, a stairwell is framed with joists on all sides.  Since the stairwell opening often doesn't line up with the spacing of regular joists, the joists framing the stairwell are trimmer joists, which may be a double thickness, composed of two boards nailed together (e.g. two 2x10s).
 
The studs in the wall on the lower level will be capped with a top plate, which is usually composed of two 2x4s. Then, the joists sit on top of the top plate.  The subfloor for the next level sits on top of the joists.  On top of the subfloor will be the bottom plate for the wall on the next level, composed of a single 2x4, and then the studs for the wall on top of that.
 
So, from top to bottom, you would see:
 
Wall studs for second floor wall
Bottom plate of second floor wall (one 2x4)
Subfloor of second floor
Joist
Top Plate of first floor wall (two 2x4s)
Wall studs of first floor wall
 
So drilling up from below, you would have to drill through the top plate 2x4s, possibly the trimmer joists, the subfloor, and the bottom plate for the upper floor.
 
Had to re-read your post again...lotsa pertinent information.
If you look at the pics I have attached to the thread, I can poke from the top hole and go it about a feet before I hit something.
I am guessing thats the top plate of the first floor wall.
 
You mention the studs, I am guessing you did that for sake of completion. I am not going to drilling through those studs.
Just drilling vertically, so 2nd floor top plate, then hollow space for joist and then the 1st floor top plate.
 
You said that first floor top plate is 2 2x4s, to me it seems like (in my limited experience), drilling from the bottom, I have drilled through 1 2x4. Next what I have is not a 2x4 but something else which I can get through (with a smaller drill) into what again feels like a hollow space.
 
So I am guessing I am in the hollow space from both the ends but the holes are not aligned for some reason...
 
I really want to rip out the drywall to see what the heck am I doing wrong.
 
-AM
RAL said:
_wsb_861x1112_interior+stairway+framing.jpg
 
activemind said:
Understood, I am NOT drilling through the joist, that would mean drilling more than 6" and I have drilled 2" from bottom and 2" from top and found a hollow opening from the top.
 
I think a 1/2" or 3/4" hole should be good enough for the cables I am trying to fish.
 
What the heck is glue-lams or TGIs? Yes, I can google but a one liner would be helpful.
 
-AM
 
Glue lams are glue laminated beams, basically a beam made up from smaller pieces of wood glued together to form a solid beam.
 
TGIs (also called TJIs) are basically wood I-beams.  
 
A 1/2" or 3/4" hole should be fine to get a few cables through.  But unless they are perfectly aligned, it can be surprisingly difficult to get the fish from one to the other when you are doing it blind.
 
It's difficult to tell how everything lines up from your pictures, but I'm wondering if your hole on the second floor is really above the cutout for the network box, or whether it might be one stud bay to the right of it.  Is there more wallspace to the right of the cutout?  That could explain a lot as to why you are having trouble!
 
One thing to try is to place a section of your wire fishing pole (or even a wire coat hanger) down through the hole on the second floor, and then use another wire or pole to go up from the first floor and see if you can feel the two hitting each other.  It's a lot easier to wiggle the pole around and hit something than it is to find the hole in the plate.
 
If you are able to hit the other wire/pole, then at least you'll know you are in the right place.  Once you know that, then there are lots of tricks for getting it threaded all the way through.   Hooks on both ends can be used to snag the other side and pull it through.  Or a metal chain and magnets.  And of course, busting through the drywall is always an option (and sometimes the quickest).
 
RAL said:
Glue lams are glue laminated beams, basically a beam made up from smaller pieces of wood glued together to form a solid beam.
 
TGIs (also called TJIs) are basically wood I-beams.  
 
A 1/2" or 3/4" hole should be fine to get a few cables through.  But unless they are perfectly aligned, it can be surprisingly difficult to get the fish from one to the other when you are doing it blind.
 
It's difficult to tell how everything lines up from your pictures, but I'm wondering if your hole on the second floor is really above the cutout for the network box, or whether it might be one stud bay to the right of it.  Is there more wallspace to the right of the cutout?  That could explain a lot as to why you are having trouble!
 
One thing to try is to place a section of your wire fishing pole (or even a wire coat hanger) down through the hole on the second floor, and then use another wire or pole to go up from the first floor and see if you can feel the two hitting each other.  It's a lot easier to wiggle the pole around and hit something than it is to find the hole in the plate.
 
If you are able to hit the other wire/pole, then at least you'll know you are in the right place.  Once you know that, then there are lots of tricks for getting it threaded all the way through.   Hooks on both ends can be used to snag the other side and pull it through.  Or a metal chain and magnets.  And of course, busting through the drywall is always an option (and sometimes the quickest).
Thanks for the explanation.
 
I think I am in the right bay beacuse I am drilling 1" away from an existing cable.
 
I tried feeling the two ends but nothing...I also tried a flickering flashlight from the top to see if I can spot something from bottom....nothing...
 
I keep staring at the picture you sent and I think I am right next to the label "JOIST" in the right side of the picture.
 
I cant seem to understand whats the second wood I am hitting after drilling through the 2x4 from the bottom...
 
I could have accepted its a joist but I took a smaller size drill and I feel I can get through...so feels like 1" wood...
 
I cant seem to find my USB camera so that I can peek...I really dont want to drill from the bottom till I understand what I am drilling through...drilling through the top is out because I have already drilled through the top plate and dont know where the bit will drill if I just go on....
 
really stuck...still staring at the pic you sent...
 
-AM
 
activemind said:
Thanks for the explanation.
 
I think I am in the right bay beacuse I am drilling 1" away from an existing cable.
 
I tried feeling the two ends but nothing...I also tried a flickering flashlight from the top to see if I can spot something from bottom....nothing...
 
I keep staring at the picture you sent and I think I am right next to the label "JOIST" in the right side of the picture.
 
I cant seem to understand whats the second wood I am hitting after drilling through the 2x4 from the bottom...
 
I could have accepted its a joist but I took a smaller size drill and I feel I can get through...so feels like 1" wood...
 
I cant seem to find my USB camera so that I can peek...I really dont want to drill from the bottom till I understand what I am drilling through...drilling through the top is out because I have already drilled through the top plate and dont know where the bit will drill if I just go on....
 
really stuck...still staring at the pic you sent...
 
-AM
 
Even though you drilled your hold 1" away from the existing cable, that cable might not be taking a direct path like you think it is.  Since the hole you drilled is before the first step on the second floor, It seems like you would expect it to come through almost outside your closet space under the steps.  As I said, it's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like the cut out for the network box is under the steps, not before the steps (maybe under the second and third step).
 
It's possible that the 1" of wood you hit is from a TGI joist.  I'd expect it to be a bit more than 1", but it wouldn't be solid like a regular joist.
 
I-joist_TJI_flange.JPG
 
RAL said:
Even though you drilled your hold 1" away from the existing cable, that cable might not be taking a direct path like you think it is.  Since the hole you drilled is before the first step on the second floor, It seems like you would expect it to come through almost outside your closet space under the steps.  As I said, it's hard to tell from the photo, but it looks like the cut out for the network box is under the steps, not before the steps (maybe under the second and third step).
 
It's possible that the 1" of wood you hit is from a TGI joist.  I'd expect it to be a bit more than 1", but it wouldn't be solid like a regular joist.
 
I-joist_TJI_flange.JPG
I took a harder metal rod (my canvas frame holder...dont ask) and pushed it through the hole from the bottom.
 
It goes in a good feet before it hits something.
 
Did some more looking into the path the existing wire it taking. It looks like its drilled INTO the joist at an angle from the top. Why?
 
Where is this new hole I created leading to? Where is this empty space.
 
Tell me if more pictures would help and I can upload more.
 
Thanks for taking the time to help me...
 
-AM
 
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