Wiring my house for Network! Yet another thread!

[pete_c]

Now at the home run, how am I going to get it past the foundation into the garage ? Is there enough space somewhere that I can take the wires out to the garage from the crawl space! Do I have to go "up" and then across into the garage?

 
Over the years here have added more LV to the garage.  I did also add more HV the garage.  The attached garage had two sections of two walls that were common with the house.  Initially the endeavor started by adding LV then later water.  (put a sink in the garage).  Some was already roughed in.  I used the same or similar paths (not adjacent  though) to get under the home into the basement for my adds.  Also found a path for a gas line as the laundry room and gas line was close (well sort of).  I also used the attic space of the garage as it is another attic that is not part of the main house attic for adding electric.  It was a PITA to get to that attic but I could and did run new conduit in it (which ends up in the basement).
 

I am leaning towards continue drilling from bottom and see where I come out.

 
Go slow as it will be very low on the WAF if you hit that carpeting with the drill bit from the bottom.  Put a bright light in the space either above or below; might help a bit.  The smaller the opening for drilling the more difficult it will be to drill straight up or down.  Thinking my drill has a level bubbles on it. 
 

Except in special cases—when you intentionally choose a specific angle or bias—it’s important to keep all drill holes perpendicular to the surface. This is easy to accomplish with a drill press, but there are plenty of occasions when you need to use a hand drill/driver to complete the task, like drilling into a wall or cabinet door. Many drills have a bubble level, but those can only help in certain situations, and most walls are not exactly flat or straight.
 
One option is to buy a specific type of jig—a portable drill guide. You can also whip one up at home with some wood scraps for an easy, no-cost alternative.

 

[activemind]

Go slow is the only reason why it took me the WHOLE FREKIN day to run 1 frekin wire!!!
 
Sorry...just frustated...I guess I need a beer
 
Still scratching my head on why the original cable was run this way....what am I missing...
 
Accepted that the hole from the top and bottom are not in the same cavity....but they are in some cavity because I can go in good 12" before I hit next obstacle.
 
Seems safest to drill from bottom and see where I come out...
 
-AM

 

[RAL]

Go slow is the only reason why it took me the WHOLE FREKIN day to run 1 frekin wire!!!
 
Sorry...just frustated...I guess I need a beer
 
Still scratching my head on why the original cable was run this way....what am I missing...
 
Accepted that the hole from the top and bottom are not in the same cavity....but they are in some cavity because I can go in good 12" before I hit next obstacle.
 
Seems safest to drill from bottom and see where I come out...
 
-AM

 
I think we all understand your frustration and have all been there at one time or another.
 
If you are going to drill all the way through and aren't certain where the drill will come out, it is a good idea to have an assistant who will watch on the other end and yell, scream or pound with a hammer if the drill starts to emerge in an unexpected place.  That can save carpeting or hardwood flooring from maximum damage.
 
.

 

[activemind]

I think I want to call it a day and sleep on it....see if anything dawns on me or one of you what might be happening here...
 
Will start on this tomorrow with a fresh mind.
 
-AM

 

[RAL]

@activemind
 
I've marked up the framing diagram based on our off-line discussion.  It's very possible that your house is not constructed exactly as the diagram shows, which could explain why it is so puzzling as to where the wire goes.   But in general, the framing around a stairwell makes it a difficult place to run wires from one floor to another, so sometimes they must be done in a roundabout manner.
 
From your description, it sounds to me like where you see the wire go from the wall into the floor, it is probably where the red line is.  The joist you say the wire goes through may be one that is irregularly offset relative to the stairway, and I've shown this joist as the blue line.  Where the wire goes from there is the next mystery, but I'm thinking it is probably above the ceiling outside of your closet.
 
The other possibility is that the wire follows the yellow line, but then I think you would have seen it from the hole you made in the ceiling in the closet.
 
http://imgur.com/YIUT0Wp

 

[tmbrown97]

I've done a good handful of retrofit wire jobs... I'll say that it seems like every single time, I run into something crazy.  I've added every fish rod, tape, scope camera, wet noodle, and just about every other tool imaginable to my collection.  What I've learned is that if the homeowner is willing, cutting drywall is the most effective by far.  There's no substitute for being able to see exactly what you're up against.
 
If you can get a drill in, then remember to follow through and attach something to the drill as it goes in if drilling through multiple members... you'll *never* line up two holes after the fact with a fish rod...  so drive the bit from one side until you can reach it from the other, then attach a poly line or the wire and pull it through all in one shot.
 
For the OP: You've already made swiss cheese of that wall.  At this point removing a 4'x8' section of the drywall opens everything up and at the same time will be the fastest patch.  Or go smaller if that works - maybe 3'x7' or whatever... and honestly it'll look better while you wait to mud/paint it.

 

[activemind]

@RAL - I think I agree with most of what you have drawn except based on tapping from the top and bottom I think the network box location is shifted 1-2 studs towards label 4&5.
 
I think my staircase is slightly different in the sense that the underneath room does not end where the stairs end but goes 12" further. So the networks box location is shifted towards 4&5.
 
@W2P - Based on the damage I have done so far, I am more than willing to cut more drywall and I agree, one larger hole is better than multiple smalls ones from patching point of view.
 
I was having an offline discussion with RAL over phone and I cant seem to decide whats the best location to cut. I really dont want to cut on the other side of the closet as thats the family room. I am fine cutting anywhere else in the closet.
 
Please check your PM.
 
-AM

 

[pete_c]

@AM - we are all with you in this endeavour as you write and post pictures. 
 
I personally "by accident" drilled through the middle of the wooden kitchen floor from the basement aiming at the center kitchen counter top and missing it by a foot or so.  Thinking during the planning and while staring at the ceiling in the basement (and getting a stiff neck) visualizing the kitchen stuff read the wrong end of the yardstick?  It was low on the WAF as we had just redone one room removing the carpeting and the endeavour taking a week (old fashion way of laying the wood, sanding the wood, patching the wood and putting the final finish - looks nice and personally don't like that stapled finished wood stuff; never did).
 
Yup; here went a bit further back away from the stairs at the top landing for my wiring chase.  There is also a sort of balcony space with furniture there on mine.  Both sides of the 2nd floor stairs landing had some 4-5 feet of wall space.  One room is not a bedroom; rather its my home office and I ended up putting floor to ceiling shelves on one wall (well oak) and way to heavy to move.  The other side has short (still heavy) book shelves.  As stated the access panel is the width of two studs, down to the floor and big enough for me to stick my head in it.  I have also fused a gold bracelet to my wrist via an electrical short (so I felt the electric and the heat - wasn't pleasant) sticking my hands where they did not belong; blindly.
 
Aside from the carpeting on your stuff it looks like you have electrical wiring tacked on one side of the drywall (unless that is a seam of sorts); that there is my concern (electrical wise) and when drilling where as the carpeting stuff is a low WAF thing.  Just takes one thread wrapped around the drill bit to mess up a large section of carpeting.  It would be a difficult fix.  More difficult than a drywall fix.
 
The easy piece of the cut of a large section is that you do this over the studs on one side (no need for both sides(walls)) and its easier to attach a new section of drywall over studs than a tiny section with no studs on it.  (that whole taping, sanding and painting thing will make it look nice).  Well too you will need to match the color of the paint.  Take a section of painted drywall to your local big box store and they can match the color with their painting color computer if you do not have any spare same colored paint.

 

[sda]

When patching large sections of drywall, its a lot easier If you cut your opening to the edge of a stud, then screw/nail a piece of 2x against the existing stud to attach the new drywall to. 

 

[activemind]

Excellent points. I will come back and refer to them when I come back to patching the drywall.
 
Have some family commitments this afternoon....will resume exploration after that
 
-AM

 

[activemind]

Spent some more time over the weekend trying to understand whats going on.
 
Drilled some more (scared chicken shit..) from the bottom to see if I come out somewhere I can see.
 
Used a smaller drill, so just to recap, I drilled through the 2 2x4 and hit a hollow space of approx 12". Then drilled through with a smaller drill for approx 2-3" and still nothing.
 
My helper from the top says for sure I am somewhere near because he can feel and hear the drill from the bedroom. But he is not experienced enough to tell me more precisely where I am might be coming out.
 
Found my USB borescope and I cannot really see anything from the top. I see that I can RIGHT next to a joist from the top so I have a feeling that the bottom hole is on the other side of the joist, which is fine. I am afraid that by drilling further from the bottom I am drilling INTO the joist and hence not coming out but if that were the case, how could I hit the 12" empty space before I could start drilling again.
 
Taking it real slow here...spent some more time over the weekend to see if I had an alternate path, but this seems to be the best one. Plus I am so close...I think I will try my borescope from the bottom and see if I can see something (though I might have to make the hole bigger).
 
I am open to buying a reasonably priced borescope (DIY quality) which is thinner. This is the one I have and it serves the prupose but I wish it were thinner in dia.
 
Amazon Borescope Link
 
-AM

 

[pvrfan]

... I personally "by accident" drilled through the middle of the wooden kitchen floor ... It was low on the WAF ...

 
I can relate to that...and you'll pardon me if I don't relate the miserable details!
 
Craig

 

[pete_c]

Well I don't notice it anymore (its been over 10 years now).