x10-compatible appliance module that DOESN'T pulse power?

[miamicanes]

I have an X-10 appliance module (2-pin, DIP microcontroller inside) that I bought to switch the power for a Foscam IP camera (when my Elk M1 gets armed in 'away' mode, it sends an 'on' command via the x10 interface; when it's disarmed, it sends an 'off' command). The problem is, the module sends a power pulse about once per second due to its local turn on feature. I followed the instructions for the X10 FAQ to cut the jumper connecting pin 7 of the chip to the hot lead, but all it did was stop the module from turning itself on -- the power pulses themselves keep getting sent (I can see the green LED on the camera's power supply light up every second, and hear the camera make a brief whirr as well). Besides the fact that I'm sure it's not good for the camera, the pulses are quite audible... and the camera is in the master bedroom.

Does anybody know of an x-10 compatible appliance module that does NOT exhibit this behavior, and is literally just a straight-up x-10 controlled relay that closes and opens in response to x10 commands without screwing up the power delivered when that relay is open or closed?

 

[tmbrown97]

I have an X-10 appliance module (2-pin, DIP microcontroller inside) that I bought to switch the power for a Foscam IP camera (when my Elk M1 gets armed in 'away' mode, it sends an 'on' command via the x10 interface; when it's disarmed, it sends an 'off' command). The problem is, the module sends a power pulse about once per second due to its local turn on feature. I followed the instructions for the X10 FAQ to cut the jumper connecting pin 7 of the chip to the hot lead, but all it did was stop the module from turning itself on -- the power pulses themselves keep getting sent (I can see the green LED on the camera's power supply light up every second, and hear the camera make a brief whirr as well). Besides the fact that I'm sure it's not good for the camera, the pulses are quite audible... and the camera is in the master bedroom.

Does anybody know of an x-10 compatible appliance module that does NOT exhibit this behavior, and is literally just a straight-up x-10 controlled relay that closes and opens in response to x10 commands without screwing up the power delivered when that relay is open or closed?

I don't use X10 anymore so I can't say for sure, but I'd suspect any of the X10 appliance modules should do the trick - they have relays in them that you can hear click when they turn on or off.

 

[miamicanes]

No, that's the problem. This IS an appliance module with relay. I cut the jumper that enables/disables local power toggling, and all it did was disable the actual power toggling function... the low-voltage power pulses every second or so keep happening.

From what I've read, the oldest of old first-gen appliance modules (from the 1970s? 80s?) didn't do it, but at some point over the past ~25 years, someone got the bright idea of implementing the same power-pulse detection for local on-off toggling in the appliance modules. Today was the first time I'd ever actually opened one up and cut the jumper. I'd always just assumed that cutting the jumper stopped the pulsing, not that it merely caused the pulsing to be ignored.

I've considered trying to just run the camera's 12v power through an Elk-controlled relay, but apparently the Foscam cameras use a weird power connector that's not quite a standard barrel-type connector, and the only straightforward way to obtain one is to basically cut it off from the power supply and rig it that way (at least, I've been searching online, and have yet to stumble upon anybody who's ever found an independent source for the connectors). For now, I'm trying to avoid going that route, and sticking to a/c power control instead.

If it matters, I actually bought a bunch of in-wall X10 appliance-type outlets, but haven't tried them yet. I'm assuming that they probably have the same internal circuit as the appliance module does, and that cutting the jumper won't stop the pulsing with them, either.

I'm halfway considering trying to solder a (90v?) neon bulb across the output outlet, on the theory that it might soak up enough of the power pulses to keep the camera from noticing them. I used a similar strategy years ago to stop an X10 appliance module powering a compact fluorescent lamp from turning itself on (before I found out about the cut-the-jumper trick) -- I plugged an extension cord into the x10 appliance module, plugged the lamp into the extension cord, and plugged a night light into the same extension cord and left the nightlight permanently turned 'on'. It soaked up enough of the pulses to keep the CF circuit from false-triggering it and turning it on. However, I'm not sure whether the same trick will work for what appears to be a high-frequency 12v switching power supply...

 

[BLH]

The latest X10 CFL Friendly appliance modules with the surface mounted controller chip. Has a very low current on the output compared to the older ones. It is also not a pulsing DC current like the older ones are.

A 47,000 Ohm 1/2 watt resistor across the output of your unit. May help. You could go to 33,000 Ohms 1/2 watt and the resistor would be dissipating .43 watts.
The 4 watt night light bulb you mentioned. Should also work.

When you did the modification with the jumper. Did you also cut the diode to reduce the pulsing current? I did both the jumper and the diode on mine. You may want to try cutting the diode first. As it should lower the current on the output and remove the DC pulsing portion.

The Insteon and Icon modules form Smarthome can have an X10 address added to them and have a low sensing current on their output. Though the latest revision ones now revert to Off after a power loss. Even if they where On at the time the power was lost.

 

[mustangcoupe]

You could also power a separate relay with the appliance module to plug in the AC side of power supply into. Not really a WAF friendly idea but it'd "work"

 

[BLH]

I did an output current, when Off, check on a few modules.

2 AM466 CFL Friendly. Date Code: 09K48. 0.35 ma AC on one and 0.33 ma AC on the other.

1 AM468 Older style. Date Code: 06K46 1.60 ma DC and 2.29 ma AC.

 

[miamicanes]

Where's the diode, and what pads is it soldered between? Are there any side-effects from cutting it, or does it affect ONLY current pulsing for local power control?

You wouldn't happen to have a SR227 power outlet to check, would you? Those are the ones I already bought a few months ago in preparation for this. I also have an XPFM inline power controller.

Does anybody happen to know offhand whether BOTH outlets on a SR227 (and its 2-prong cousin) are switched on and off, or whether one is always on and one is switched? If both are switched, maybe I could avoid the need to add 3-way cubes or do surgery to add a resistor/neon bulb by just plugging a small incandescent/neon nightlight into the other outlet (my dad has a crate of old single-bulb neon nightlights in the garage that he bought ~20 years ago at a hamfest, then ended up never using because they ended up being too dim to be useful as anything besides showing where the wall was in a pitch-black hallway).

 

[BLH]

Instruction sheet for the SR227 says Top Outlet Switched. Bottom Outlet always On.
I believe it also has Local Control. The X10Pro model does and X10 doesn't specifically say it does or does not.
ftp://ftp.x10.com/pub/manuals/sr227-is.pdf

The diode is near the black wire from the mechanical switch to the outlet pin.
http://www.laureanno.com/
Look in Tom's X10 Modifications
AM486
Disable Local Control.
The diode is in both the newer ones with the jumper you cut and the ones before the jumper.
I saw no problems with both the diode and jumper cut.
I have seen nothing on the newest CFL friendly ones but they seem to play nice with everything. Except extremely low current LED bulbs that still glow faintly.

I guess you could also get a new appliance module. I believe the new design was in 2009. So all current ones should be the new design. Unless your vendor had old stock.

 

[miamicanes]

Do the new CFL-friendly ones have new SKU/part numbers, or did they decide to pull a "Linksys" and release a new line with different design and the same part number?

 

[BLH]

Same part number. No label to indicate the new design.
Same thing for the new soft start lamp modules. No indication of the changes.
Date Code could be an indicator. 09K48 {48th week of 2009} I know are the new design. So anything later than that should be the new style.

I have no information on the SKU Bar Code on the box. So I can't say if they even changed that.

 

[Jason B]

Ok, similiar issue here, with an sr227 outlet...



A little different, but this is what I'm doing. I have a special RF module plugged into the x10 outlet. This module sends an rf signal to control a motorized hunter douglas shade. For some reason it won't work unless I plug in a Xpff filter into it first, then it works.

The device is setup to work for a switched outlet normally... FOr ex, if you have a normal light switch in a room that controls an outlet. When you turn the wall switch "on" that controls the outlet, the hunter douglas rf adapter (has a watch battery in it) senses when the electricity is turned on for that outlet, and sends an "on" command via RF to the motorized shade. When you toggle the wall switch off, then the shade goes down. THis is with normal regular switches, nothing X10.... It works find everytime this way.
 

BUT, of course I want to do automate with x10, so I replaced the original ac socket with an sr227, and pluged in the rf adapter, and then toggle on/off from my iphone app to turn the sr227 on/off, but for some reason it doesn't sense that the electricity is being turned on/off, but DOES with the filter plugged into the sr227 outlet, then the rf adapter.
 

Now, I tried the extension cord trick listed above, with having a lamp also plugged into the same outlet as this rf adater, and it worked. No filter needed! It seems the added load causes the shade to work and could be that the filter link is adding enough load to the X10 module so it performs correctly. A friend is telling me it has something with current sensing.

So, I guess I may have figured out how to fix the original problem in this post, add a filter and it will add the load needed to fix the issue, BUT I want to find a way to get this to work without the filter and without having to plug a 2nd item into the outlet to get it to trigger this rf adapter.

Ideas?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I think your thinking is correct, that a load is needed as you have proof based on your testing.
 
But, just for grins, can you plug your shade controller into a switched (non X-10) outlet and see if you duplicate your above results? (Or just use an extension/multiple outlet with a switch on it).
 
Reason I state that is I've always sensed those X-10 outlets chatter a bit before making contact.
 
Again, might just be me, but this quick test would prove this.

 

[Jason B]

Thanks, Yes, I actually did that, with a non x10 outlet that is controlled via a standard wall switch and it works fine.

The funny thing is, it's not a noise or filtering problem like I thought, since I can get it to work via x10 if I have a lamp plugged in at the same time as the RF shade adapter. Or, if I unplug the lamp, and put the xppf filter back on, it will work. This rf adpater that plugs in only has small battery inside it to detect when power is turned on/off, and it probably only has minual current in it, like a small led.

I just want a clean way to get this to work, without needing a filter or having a lamp plugged in.

There are instructions on the net on how to take apart the sr227 and cut a diode to disable local control that might fix it?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

There are instructions on the net on how to take apart the sr227 and cut a diode to disable local control that might fix it?

I've never heard of that.  Will that fix eliminate the chatter?

 

[BLH]

The SR227 may also have a Output On or Off sensing circuit. Since it has an alternate ratchet switch in it and does not remember if it was On or Off. It senses if the output is On or Off. If you send an X10 On and it is On, no pulse will falsely click the switch Off.
I disabled that sensor in an appliance module and it pulsed like a machine gun trying to determine if it was On or Off.