x10-compatible appliance module that DOESN'T pulse power?

[Jason B]

Hmm, there are some instructions on the net on how to mod the sr227 to fix this, but I'm wondering if it's just going to chatter then?

http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/4983-disabling-local-control-on-sr227-wall-outlets/

http://board.homeseer.com/showthread.php?t=127189

http://www.laureanno.com/am486.jpeg

 

[BLH]

They should work. I had to remove a different resistor to kill the On or Off Sensor. I did the diode and jupmer mods in a few of the appliance modules myself.
 
Only thing you may run into is the new CFL friendly appliance modules with the surface mounted controller IC.
In my tests  they didn't have any Local Control from the factory.

 

[Jason B]

I think your thinking is correct, that a load is needed as you have proof based on your testing.
 
But, just for grins, can you plug your shade controller into a switched (non X-10) outlet and see if you duplicate your above results? (Or just use an extension/multiple outlet with a switch on it).
 
Reason I state that is I've always sensed those X-10 outlets chatter a bit before making contact.
 
Again, might just be me, but this quick test would prove this.

Do you think the insteon ac outlet would have the same problem as the X10?

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Sorry, I don't have any Insteon items and don't know a lot about their relay switching scheme.

 

[Jason B]

Ok, similiar issue here, with an sr227 outlet...



A little different, but this is what I'm doing. I have a special RF module plugged into the x10 outlet. This module sends an rf signal to control a motorized hunter douglas shade. For some reason it won't work unless I plug in a Xpff filter into it first, then it works.

The device is setup to work for a switched outlet normally... FOr ex, if you have a normal light switch in a room that controls an outlet. When you turn the wall switch "on" that controls the outlet, the hunter douglas rf adapter (has a watch battery in it) senses when the electricity is turned on for that outlet, and sends an "on" command via RF to the motorized shade. When you toggle the wall switch off, then the shade goes down. THis is with normal regular switches, nothing X10.... It works find everytime this way.
 

BUT, of course I want to do automate with x10, so I replaced the original ac socket with an sr227, and pluged in the rf adapter, and then toggle on/off from my iphone app to turn the sr227 on/off, but for some reason it doesn't sense that the electricity is being turned on/off, but DOES with the filter plugged into the sr227 outlet, then the rf adapter.
 

Now, I tried the extension cord trick listed above, with having a lamp also plugged into the same outlet as this rf adater, and it worked. No filter needed! It seems the added load causes the shade to work and could be that the filter link is adding enough load to the X10 module so it performs correctly. A friend is telling me it has something with current sensing.

So, I guess I may have figured out how to fix the original problem in this post, add a filter and it will add the load needed to fix the issue, BUT I want to find a way to get this to work without the filter and without having to plug a 2nd item into the outlet to get it to trigger this rf adapter.

Ideas?

 
I made a video to show what's going on. And here is work around with that RF adapter I was telling you about and having to plug something else into the outlet. This would also work for those that have small leds plugged in that still light up.
 
Here the x10 outlet is OFF, and you can see when the 3 outlet surge protector is plugged in, the red led light, stays ON. When i add in the night light, it then senses the outlet if off, then the RF device works. I reallly would like a way around doing all this. There has to be something simplier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTI9TvhzXNQ

Also, now that sr227 can't even fit back into the wall with all the wires.


 

 

[BLH]

The Insteon Outletlinc relay. Also has local control sensing. So it may also cause very low current devices to not go all the way off. It can be set to ignore Local Control but the small current is still there.
 
If you are comfortable with electricity. You may want to try a 47,000 Ohm 1/2 Watt resistor in a plug. That is also connected to the SR227. It many times is enough to load down the small sensing voltage.

 

[Jason B]

The Insteon Outletlinc relay. Also has local control sensing. So it may also cause very low current devices to not go all the way off. It can be set to ignore Local Control but the small current is still there.
 
If you are comfortable with electricity. You may want to try a 47,000 Ohm 1/2 Watt resistor in a plug. That is also connected to the SR227. It many times is enough to load down the small sensing voltage.

Thanks, that's what I figured on the insteon. The resistor sounds like a cool idea. Would be cool if I wrap it around the RF plug and it would still push into the outlet

 

[Jason B]

I made a video to show what's going on. And here is work around with that RF adapter I was telling you about and having to plug something else into the outlet. This would also work for those that have small leds plugged in that still light up.
 
Here the x10 outlet is OFF, and you can see when the 3 outlet surge protector is plugged in, the red led light, stays ON. When i add in the night light, it then senses the outlet if off, then the RF device works. I reallly would like a way around doing all this. There has to be something simplier.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTI9TvhzXNQ

Also, now that sr227 can't even fit back into the wall with all the wires.


 

Ok, I'm trying to do this SAME thing again, but with one of othese, instead of replacing the outlet:

I'm a little confused on how to get this to work again, and would cutting the jumper make this work?

http://kbase.x10.com/wiki/Local_Control_for_Lamp_And_Appliance_Modules

http://www.x10community.com/marko/2006/06/disabling_the_local_control_fe.html

 

[BLH]

Cutting the jumper will disable the AM486 from going back on if the local loads switch is toggled off and back on.
It will not remove the local control sensing current that causes small loads to glow or pulse when the module is off.
There is a diode that can also be cut. That will remove the actual sensing current from the outlet.
I will see if I can find a photo showing the diode as the original web site where the whole modification was, is gone
 
The latest CFL Friendly models do not have any local control sensing in them. So there is no jumper or diode to be removed.
There is a very small sensing current on the output to determine if it is on or off. Removing that current will cause it to pulse a few times and sound like a machine gun. As it can't determine if it is on or off.
 
The old small incandescent night light bulb as an added load will still work on them. So will a resistor across the load. I believe 47,000 Ohms 1/2 watt works most of the time.

 

[Jason B]

Thanks, some of this is over my head, but the main thing I want to do is what you said, and the way to do that now is to plug in a led night light, or something else. So, for what I'm doing that's the only way, a night light, or the resistor? right? Or the diode cut, if we can find it, will act the same way? What does this resistor look like, and I could just plug into the same outlet that the device plugs into and wedge it in? Wonder if there is a pic somewhere that shows it. I'm out of night lights  Thanks again!

(the other issue is I got the 2 pin/prong appliance module, instead of the 3 pin, so I can't mimmick what I did in my video to get it to work, unless I get a cube plug I guess)

 

[BLH]

LED night light could glow as they don't need much current to still glow. Though worth a try.
Others have used old wall warts with some luck.
A power cube would work and many in the X10 forums have gone that route. To allow the needed extra outlet for the added load.
 
The diode and jumper were in the older hardware versions.
 
X10WTI did do a hardware revision to change the parts to more readily available parts and removed the local control function.
Called the CFL Friendly model as they didn't turn back On when a LED or CFL bulb pulsed from the local control sensing current.
Completely different layout with some surface mounted components.

 

[Jason B]

I have the an older Am486 from 2005, so, is this the diode fix?

http://www.laureanno.com/x10-mod3.html

 

[Jason B]

EDIT, crap. It worked for a few times, but only after a few seconds of plugging the appliance module back in. It clicks, but I think it needs that extra load that I'm missing. For some reason it works right after I plug the module into the wall socket for a few times. Looks like I have to resort to the mini light or resistor. Darn! 
 
How would cutting that jumper benefit me? That's is you have a wall switch that turns an outlet on and off? 

 

[BLH]

Cut the jumper. It disables the local control sensing.
 
The diode you cut removes the sensing current on the output. That can keep small loads glowing.
 
If the load on the output goes back on after you turn it off. You may still need a small extra load.
Some inductive loads can falsely trigger the circuit that determines if it is on or off.

 

[Jason B]

Ok, finally found it and cut jumper. See pic. Will re-assemble and test again. There is only one jumper it seems, so this must be it.