Your thoughts on the Leviton purchase of HAI 2.5 years in

[pete_c]

Yup here got loud at HAI booth many years ago at one EHExpo (2005) relating to HAI adopting Insteon.  They didn't listen to me.  I did migrate from X10 to Insteon and did manage my X10 stuff at the time with my HAI OPII panel.  None the less while its still in place I have migrated to UPB and have mostly tossed my Insteon stuff. 
 
Curious everywhere I look I see Schneider Electric - they seem to be buying everything these days.  Went googling for Zigbee stuff this morning and found this (never noticed it before).  Looks like the HAI Leviton stuff being sold by Schneider Electric Wiser.  Googling it appears to have been started in 2010 and it looks like they were at the 2015 CES.  When did Home Depot start selling this stuff?
 
Found a press release from way back in 2003.
 

2/19/2003 Schneider Electric and American company Leviton have signed joint technology agreement in voice-data-image (VDI) sector.  Schneider Electric’s North American division has signed a joint technology agreement with Leviton, North America’s largest manufacturer of electrical and electronic wiring devices for the residential, commercial and industrial building market.  The goal is to provide simpler, more affordable information and media networking technology to millions of existing homes.

«The proliferation of wired and wireless network technology in recent years has presented homeowners with many voice, data and video communications options and products that are not easily integrated with each other into simple and manageable systems,» said Bernard Quancard, Vice-President of the VDI global activity at Schneider Electric.
«By overcoming the need to install large amounts of additional wiring, retrofitting existing homes with new structured media technology can become much more affordable,» he said.

This agreement with Leviton clearly shows Schneider Electric’s global commitment to be a major player in the VDI infrastructure market.As part of this agreement, a team consisting of members of both companies will work on developing prototype systems during the first part of 2003 using the know-how of both market leaders.

Schneider Electric Wiser
 

 

[Del91574]

@ Pete:

Ever since Schneider bought out Pelco, the QC has really slipped. Pelco used to be THE brand for everything CCTV.....definitely not anymore. We've had bad pallets of cameras and the entire lot.

 

[pete_c]

@Del
 
It is understood that its more a profit driven industry today with more quantity and less quality which feeds the stockholders profits and never much noticed by the purchasers of said products who assume much because of a name of the company. 
 
I am not promoting or saying its better; just the messenger here.
 
What is it you do or say in your proposals for large footprint security implementations? 
 
You as the provider of hardware and services want to make a profit and the purchaser wants to get the best bang for the buck.

 

[Del91574]

It depends on the integration and what (or if) the spec contains what the cameras and head end should be. Usually the head end is part of the largest determining factor. As far as what gets put on the table, usually it's either an upgrade of an existing site, so compatibility is the concern as the project doesn't replace every component (rip and replace) or it's a project that the customer is only providing a spec that they want their widget to do without specifying the head end on a fresh integration.
 
As an example, we are working on a pair of "sister" sites with Tyco products (Software house, American Dynamics) and one site had the spec of an integrated product with the access, so that is the driving factor and what the integration is. The other site, it was not as important, but the same basic products were brought on board and as they've aged, the Tyco integration is getting greater. This site has ~400 Axis cameras and then another ~400 encoders and basically we've stuck to Axis because they're universally compatible and just work. Lately we've migrated over into the Sony Ipelas. For us, the drivers for the NVR's are a huge factor and we've had issues with Arecont and others on this particular head end.
 
On others, the drivers are the deciding factor, so say on a Verint system, even though it can support Axis or a handful of others, the native integration of their own product seems to be easier (though I like Axis better on their system).

We're in mid-project on a ~200 camera install on a Salient head end....hokey is the best I could say. Probably same feelings as Genetec for me.
 
For a pretty straightforward platform that is relatively straightforward, I like Milestone, but the problem is the integration with the access just isn't there for many manufacturers.
 
I think the largest item going forward moving from the DVR world is the shift from dedicated embedded hardware to basically software running on a generic server machine (or any that meets the spec). While some is definitely purpose built, a Dell server is really not much different than a HP....usually the proprietary stuff is the same, only with a cute faceplate.

 

[jdk972003]

My personal experience is at this point, its crap.
 
Here is a simple test.  Try to find a recommended/certified  HAI installer in your area.  
 
Good luck, your going to need it.  There is no web list; nor can they supply the information to you over the phone.  You are REQUIRED to submit a generic information request form out on a redirected web page and then wait up to 72 hrs for a response.  They even ask for your full address (an alarm company none the less).  How poor is that information protection?
 
Utter and total rubbish.  If I had not got my Omnipro board for a steal of a price i would jump ship in a heartbeat, its that frustrating.

 

[ano]

Your best bet is to find a Leviton distributor, and they can point you in the right direction. For example, Worthington trains the installers, so give them a call, and they likely can give you a list of installers in your area.
http://www2.worthingtondistribution.com/university/catalog/
 
Automated Outlet and other can likely provide some as well.

 

[AutomatedOutlet]

Guys, Leviton has put a lot of resources into the HAI product line. They have double the engineers and working on some pretty cool stuff.
 
Keep the faith!

 

[JonW]

Guys, Leviton has put a lot of resources into the HAI product line. They have double the engineers and working on some pretty cool stuff.
 
Keep the faith!

 
They should evangelize what they're doing as the outward appearance is that not much is going on.

 

[dgage]

They should evangelize what they're doing as the outward appearance is that not much is going on.

Obviously it is their business and they have to walk the fine line with sharing too much and giving away competitive advantage and not sharing and losing support and customer confidence. I agree Leviton needs to evangelize as I've already moved to Elk...not that they're doing much either...but then again, they didn't raise their prices immensely for old hardware.

 

[carempel]

This is very depressing. We started building our home 4 years ago, and everything was based around HAI, except for the lighting, for which we used Insteon. I even have a $500 credit with Home Controls!! I was super excited to have OPII touch screens around the house to control audio, drapes, security, climate, etc. But now I'm re-evaluating & not sure really sure what to consider. I've already gone through 2 HAI/Leviton thermostats, and the 3rd just stopped working.  Any recommendations for control systems for someone who was considering HAI? I liked the simplicity of the installation & the interface of the touch screens. 

 

[JonW]

This is very depressing. We started building our home 4 years ago, and everything was based around HAI, except for the lighting, for which we used Insteon. 

 
I have to ask, why would you choose HAI and Insteon when HAI has zero support for Insteon?

 

[carempel]

At the time when i was doing my research, insteon was the better product & i'd read about some work arounds. I accepted that in the worst case, lighting would be the one thing that wasn't integrated. That's problem with planning a HA system for new construction. By the time the construction is done the technology has evolved. That seems to be my biggest issue with all the new technologies - they're geared for retrofit and thus rely heavily on wifi. I want the best DIY wired system. At the time, i thought it was HAI. Now I'm just confused. 

 

[pete_c]

No reason to be confused. 
 
Here I started with a security panel combo automation with TTS back in the 1980's.  It was X-10 at the time. 
 
The natural transition for me was to go to Insteon because it was supposed to be that way.  My first OPII panel was purchased in the early 2000's. (today have two).   I did assume that HAI would provide integration to Insteon at the time.  I was upset that they didn't many years ago now (well more than 4).  Geez got vocal too about it at the HAI booth one EHExpo a few years back.  None the less I did switch over to using Insteon (early adopter) and managed my Insteon lighting via the X10 TW-523 connected to the OPII panel.  I did also purchase Volp's XTB amplifier sometime after that which made my OPII panel to X10 transport work well.
 
I also utilized software (well started playing with Homeseer in 1998) and controlled the lighting addendums via Insteon with the software controller.  It was a PITA at the time to multipart load the Insteon drivers using Wintel (I call that time the "salad" days).  This is maybe the reason why HAI didn't do Insteon way back. 
 
The Insteon switches did start to fail over time and I replaced each one as they failed.  I did also get vocal with Insteon one day at another EHExpo about their first generation Insteon failures.
 
I then started to play with UPB and eventually covered about 1/3 of the home with UPB switches while still using the X-10 to control the Insteon switches. 
 
I purchased HAI, SA and PCS switches at the time for a bit of a hodgepodge of UPB.
 
Luck have it (or not) a few years back had a little electric debacle happen (more like a little explosion).  This debacle turned into a clean up of sorts as it took out (literally) the majority of Insteon switches (well and not the UPB switches).  
 
Over the next few months after the debacle I replaced almost all of the switches (and some of the older UPB switches) with new UPB switches.  It was time consuming and expensive.  I did it myself one room at a time per day when I felt like playing with electricity.
 
I was though already moving towards replacing the Insteon with UPB; it just happened sooner and unexpectedly.  Today all of my in wall light switches are UPB.  I do have a bit of Insteon around still (and today Z-Wave, Zigbee and X10) but its not really utilized much these days.  I have gone back to utilizing X10 for my holiday lighting because its fast and easy and I like have one housecode for all of the holiday lights.
 
I prefer using powerline for my lighting and not wireless or a wireless powerline hybrid today.  UPB did it right.
 
I have more recently updated many of the single paddle single load UPB switches to multipaddle dual load which work fine for me and are high on the WAF.
 
I am today using newer Omnistat2.  I purchased it when it was first available.  Only thing was that the older RC80 worked just fine for me and I had no real reason to replace it.  It sat for a while on a shelf; then one day I just swapped it and its been working fine for me now for a few years.

 

[carempel]

i'm starting to accept that UPB is the victor in the battle of lighting. I'll make the switch once they start making the push button without the rubber switches. 

 

[pete_c]

I did have a couple of those push button UPB style switches.  Today though everything is just using the paddle switches (mostly multiple paddle).
 
Here also have updated the X10 recently using Jeff Volp's  (JV Engineering) XTBIIR.  Works great for me.  I also sent one of the XTB devices to the UK for testing a few years back. X-10 automation peers there liked it too. 
 
Here are a couple of reviews relating to the JV Engineering stuff.  There are many folks out there in the automation world still using X10 today.
 
Improving X-10 signal Quality
 
The XTB - Amplify and Repeat any X-10 Signal
 
 
I also utilize two software automation servers using Homeseer automation software.  (overloaded one and using second one for the spill over automation today) and testing a few of the Almond +, Almond 2015 devices)
 
The Almond + is the first of its kind combining a router, switch , firewall, access point, Zigbee, Z-wave and Hue (and X10) automation in a tiny touchscreen.  It is being sold on Amazon today.
 
Note that I do not work for HAI/Leviton or JV Engineering or Homeseer or Securifi or PCS/SA.   I am an automation tinkerer by heart and like to play with this stuff.