New Install Clarifications

Hey Guys, i have found lots of useful information on this site through searches but also quite a bit of difference in opinion.

My situation, we are building a new house - nearing the finalization of house plans so still early. I Have bought an elk m1G with m1xsp, m1xzw, and the Ethernet interface for the purposes of:
- Security
- Lighting control
- hvac control.

I have plenty of other home automation and AV plans but sticking to the above for the moment.

QS1) The house we are building will have Milgard vinyl double hung windows. After all the searching i have seen a whole lot of mount and sensor choices, just not one that stands out as a best use item or a best case way to install. Additionally there seems to be many differences opinion on wiring one sensor per zone vs serialzation of sensors on a window set. So my questions are:

1) Is there a preferred contact for vinyl double hung windows or is it anything goes? What about a preferred style of contact type? mfg?
2) I know keeping sensor contacts isolated vs serializing them adds debugging resolution - but whats the generally best way serial or individual ? (assumes NC contacts)
3) Example schematics oh how others approached their new houses would be great.

QS2) Lighting control - seems like there are many solutions here as well, I was contemplating the zwave for a number of reasons and even bought the zwave elk module. I am concerned that there seems to be a lack of response in getting a true status of what the control device is at. I also see many messages about not using the elk zwave interface but using something like vrcop. I think zigbee would be a better choice then zwave but it looks like that product is no where as far along. So my questions here are:

1) What really is the best technology choice for reliability and ability to know what a devices current status is, give this is new construction?
2) If Zwave should i dith the elk zwave interface in favor of something like vrcop?

QS3) HVAC - the home specs include a EWC 3 zone controller and Honeywell Visual pro 8000 touchscreen Thermostats. It doesnt look like they are connectivity compatible. From what I have seen of the few thermostats supported by ELk which were april aire, RCS and HAI, i like the omnistat 2 the best. All these options seem pretty expensive, he furnace we will have is a lennox mvp61 - that's a 2 stage variable speed. So my questions are:

1) Any recommendations on Thermostats? Experience with Omnistat2 or thermostats not mention that I should consider.


Thanks alot in advance.

Don't expect any less difference of opinion in this thread

2. At the moment I use UPB, but if you are going to stick with ZWave I think it would be best to use the RZCop and return the Elk module if you still can. Elk will be supporting the RZCop going forward and is probably a much smarter choice. There is a Zigbee product, its called JetStream, by Centralite and Elk does support it with using the JetStream bridge/RS232 module.

3. I replaced a Honeywell Vision 8000 with and Omnistat2 and really like it so far.

Will the builder let you run cable yourself, or does it have to be subcontracted by the builder?

YOU may be the one determining which cables run where, if the installer and builder are unfamiliar with the specific systems you want. Talk to the sub before agreeing to anything in writing, find out which systems he knows. Similarly, sit down with the HVAC rep - wouldn't hurt.

Hardwired lighting is probably a better option than RF (Centralite Jetstream, Z-Wave, RadioRa) ALC from OnQ has received some positive endorsements recently, but mostly from a salesman named Tony Stewart, owner of SetNetPro distributors - a little biased, but he makes some great arguments. Whichever lighting system you use, ideally it should be easy to replace with another system or revert to conventional lighting. However, I don't see Lutron folding anytime in the near future, so a hardwired HomeWorks system would be great, if you're made of money.

Most alarm installers run windows contacts within a single zone in series. A small minority home-run each sensor. I'm just stating what the majority do, no condoning one or the other. My house came to me with the contacts run in series, and it hasn't caused me much of a problem.

Don't forget to wire for water sensors (bathrooms, under sinks, dishwasher, washing machine, water heater). Hopefully you won't suffer from any flooding anytime soon, as it's a new build.

Make sure the electrical closet is large enough.

In my current home each door and window is a zone on my ELK M1G. Why? Because when something is open I want to know at a glance what is open. In my previous home ALL the upstairs windows were on one zone, so if a window was left open I had to check each and every room until I found the open window. Didn't care for that. Just my 2 cents.

I Plan to do the wiring myself, I may inquire the cost for someone else, but will probably do the work myself.

My plan was to call every room a zone or even every bank of windows a zone. My feeling was that i need to know that there is an open window in Office->Window->front, and that i didnt necessrily need to know Office->window->front->center->top. At the same time i am concerned that the Office->window->front->center->top contact fails or nail through its wire and now i have to bypass the entire zone for the alarm to arm.

is there a consensus on a particular style of contact for Vynil doublehung windows?

After talking to the window mfg'r it looks like anything other then stick on/glue on sensor will void their warranty.

Does anyone have suggestions on a stickon/glue on sensor?

c5er said:

After talking to the window mfg'r it looks like anything other then stick on/glue on sensor will void their warranty.

Does anyone have suggestions on a stickon/glue on sensor?

Click to expand...

I would say that it won't void the warranty if the failure has nothing to do with the two tiny screws in the sensor. ie: if the damage isn't due to water intrusion from those two holes, then they can't void your warranty.

Of course it opens things up to dialogue, but if it's a big deal, you should win if it's not the culprit of the problem.

c5er said:

After talking to the window mfg'r it looks like anything other then stick on/glue on sensor will void their warranty.

Does anyone have suggestions on a stickon/glue on sensor?

Click to expand...

Wouldn't you want your switches to be concealed, since this is a new house with easy access to the windows before drywall, etc. Personally, I would never trust adhesive methods, although I imagine many do. My parents house was done that way, and in 12 years, only one magnet ever fell off. Damn near gave my mom a heart attack at 2am tho...

I suppose this is beside the point of "warranty" - to me, security is more important. I'll buy a new window out of pocket if I had to.

I'm not sure about the warranty issue, but i had my builder's LV subcontractor put recessed sensors in. The drill into the frame of the window while the magnet goes onto the sliding portion without any drilling. I hope my warranty isn't gone, i assume not since i was not informared by the builder of such a fact.

At least you're on top of things with reconizing you need sensors on top and bottom. I forgot about that and the LV guy didn't point it out either to my disapointment and I only have sensors in the bottom. My windows are Anderson 3000 series doublehung and there is a clip that you can extend that effectively prevents the upper pane from opening more than 4" or so. I think this is done to allow peopel to open the window but not worry about dogs/cats/kids goign out the window. With that provision i'm not too upset that i only have sensors at the bottom. Having 2 sensors in each window is goign to be a lot of work, so you may want to consider that.

As far as zoning it's really up to you. You can count the zones and look at the cost of the ELK expanders. Then count all the hours you will spent terminating all the stuff. On the flip side you only have to do it once. I also only had the ground floor done since most of the windows on the 2nd floor are not wel accesible. If somebody has the balls to bring a giant ladder, set it up against my house and woudl out with my tv (since the ground floor is all securied they could open the door from the inside without setting the alarm off) then they can have it.

I've been lucky i think in the sense that none of my 22/4 pre-wiring had any issues. Each sensor connected up just fine. Good thing too since sheetrock was up and painted before i connected anything.

GO FOR THE RECESSED SENSORS. It's the only thing that makes sense in new construction. Also actually put the sensors in and connect them up before the sheetrock. Doing just a pre-wire and then drilling and fishing the wire out later is a pain.

For lighting I've going with ALC. Certainly not the cheapest solution, but given the oppertunity presented by new construction versus retrofit it's worth considering.

For HVAC i went with aprilaire. It took me a while to get it working, but it was due to wiring issues and my own stupidity, nothing to do with their product. All seems to work well, but the T-stats are a big large and not very attractive in my opinion.