[off topic] how to add recessed lights

I'm not sure where to post my question. I was hoping someone will be able to help me. So here goes.

I'm going to renovate our family room. Wife wants me to add 4 recessed lights. Right now, there is a ceiling fan which I added 2 years ago. There were already prepared wires waiting on the ceiling so it was easy for me when I installed the ceiling fan.

Should I tap the wires from the ON/OFF switch to the new recessed lights? The good thing about the ceiling fan is that it has its own remote control which I can turn off while leaving the ON/OFF switch to ON position.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,

Neil

The only problem with that solution is that you have to turn the lights on to run the fan. Of course depending on what type of recessed lights you use, you might be able to use the "light" function of the remote to control the recessed lights. The problem there is the max wattage of lights controlled by the remote is usually 300 watts. So that is 4x 75watt lights, but no more.

What type of construction is this? IE what is above the ceiling where you want to install the lights. If it is attic space (or unfinished space), then it is easy enough to run new wiring. If there is finished living space above the room, you might still be able to run new wire, but it is harder.

Which direction do the ceiling joists run? Running wire parallel to the joists is easy, you can just use a push rod. Running wiring perpendicular to the joists is harder because you have to drill through the joists. Depending on the distance you have to run the wire (ie how many joists you have to drill through), this can be hard or impossible. I've done it a long distance by using the hole that the fan created to help cut the distance down. You could also create new holes to help out and patch them later, but I always seem to want to do this with textured ceilings. You don't want to patch textured ceilings because they will never match 100%.

If you can provide a little more detail, we can certainly help. You have to respect electricity, but it isn't hard to run wire and install new fixtures yourself.

Another issue with having the recessed lights and fan on the same switch is that you'll never be able to replace the switch with a dimmer, controlled or otherwise.

Sorry folks, I thought that it was a good idea to tap it from the switch. I did more research and found out that most folks tap it from outlets. I'll be putting separate switch for the recessed lights.

About running wires to the recessed lights, it's good because wires will be parallel. However, I can't think of solutions how I will run the wires from the outlet to the recessed light. Looks like I will have to rip the whole wall in order to do poke holes on the stud.

Here is a pic of the room I am planning to put recessed lights. The outlet is below the analog clock on the left(being covered by the chair). The chair rails that you will see aren't real.

v1rtu0s1ty said:

Sorry folks, I thought that it was a good idea to tap it from the switch.

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If the box the switch for the fan is in has a neutral wire, you could tap off of it for the lights. You'd need to make sure you get you hot lead for the lights from the hot, not switched, side of the fan switch.

I have done many recessed can retrofits and almost always I run a wire from the switch box to the cans. You need a switch for the lights anyway so its only natural to start at the switch box. You may need to add a new gang to it or use a dual switch or whatever depending on what's there already. I simply take the hot in the box, run it to the switch then from the switch to the lights. The wiring is actually very straightforward assuming you have the ability to run the wire. But if you are not 100% comfortable PLEASE hire an electrician.

I've added lights, outlets and switches to my existing home electrical using existing conduit fishing new wiring from one box to another, some back to the fuse panel to new breakers. IE: I wanted my multimedia equipment to be on separate breakers in the fuse panel. The wiring in the family room was daisy chained. I ran a new pair of wires into the fuse panel from the multimedia "area".

So if you have a conduit that runs from your ceiling fan to an outlet in the wall then to a switch you can still use the electrical box over the fan to source your electric for your recessed lights. I cheated a bit in my family room by cutting ceiling speaker holes and looking at the space I had over the family room to get oriented a bit. I did drill thru a couple of joists.

When I was running low voltage wires I would cut a small square hole near the ceiling joist and another one on the ceiling. Smaller holes in drywall are pretty easy to patch.

It's time consuming and with electric as stated you have to be careful.

I'm not going to be touching the wires for the ceiling fan anymore.

Ok, I did some research about how I should connect the recessed lights. From the information I have read and understood, this is how I came up with my wiring connection. Is it correct?

The reason I did not add the ground wire is because I didn't see a ground wire from the outlet. Not sure why there isn't one.

v1rtu0s1ty said:

I'm not going to be touching the wires for the ceiling fan anymore.

Ok, I did some research about how I should connect the recessed lights. From the information I have read and understood, this is how I came up with my wiring connection. Is it correct?

The reason I did not add the ground wire is because I didn't see a ground wire from the outlet. Not sure why there isn't one.

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This is fine, except you will have 5 wires under one wire nut at the first light which can be a little difficult to work with. Of course if you use 14 ga wire then it is less of an issue. Plus, I assume you are making all the connections in each light's housing, and you will likely be very tight on space at the first fixture with 5 cables coming into it. What most electricians would do is daisy chain the lights. In other words bring power into the first light, then take it to the next, and so on (see my orange lines on your picture). Finally, you are now adding lights to an outlet circuit, which is workable, but not ideal. Can the circuit handle the addition of this load? Have you considered pulling a new circuit from the main panel for your lights?



Couple more thoughts:

If you put the switch in the location that you are proposing, then you are working in an outside wall which means you will disturb your wall's insulation. If there is an alternate location that does not have you disturbing the insulation, then that is preferred. Know that a good electrician would be able to work at the room's existing light switch to remove the old switch box, enlarge the opening, and install a larger box to handle the recessed lights' switch. It is not that difficult. You just have to be careful with the wires. See my link showing where I removed a 3 gang switch box and installed a 4 gang for an unrelated project.

That's an awesome link! Thanks for sharing it.

Here is my problem when I pull new circuit from the main panel. All of the wires that were installed by our builder are all inside a conduit pipe. And I also remember seeing bends like 90 degrees and some ends on a junction. Or it doesn't necessarily mean that I will have to use the existing conduit pipe, add new conduit? And also, I don't feel comfortable working at the main panel but I am

Regarding bringing power to each light. I also thought of that but my problem with that is the joist. See yellow lines. I can do that to minimize the number of runs but I will have to create more holes to patch in the ceiling. I was planning to remove the whole drywall below the window and work the wires there. I just don't know if it will introduce interference to speaker wires that are already in those studs.

What do you think about the new wiring?

Very interesting topic, I would like to do the same thing, so I am looking forward to your results.

I'll be using the other wall. Looks like it's easier since it doesn't have insulation. I'll look for the other wall's picture and decide from there.

I forgot to mention that circuit breaker is 15 amp. Should I change it to 20amp? I noticed everytime we have a gathering, most of our lights are open. The circuit handles the kitchen outlets and light and family room outlets and lights

beelzerob said:

Another issue with having the recessed lights and fan on the same switch is that you'll never be able to replace the switch with a dimmer, controlled or otherwise.

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Actually you can if you use the light kit output of the fan remote. If you get a fan remote with a wall replacement switch then you can have the lights on a dimmer. Of course it cannot tie into a home automation system, but it is doable as long as you stay under the light kit max wattage.

For example, the picture below shows a fan remote kit that you can buy. It shows the two remotes (one replaces the existing wall switch). You use the existing wire in the wall to which runs power all the time to the fan location. Then you hook the actual remote control receiver unit up to the fan. You run a wire from all the new can lights back to the fan location and you hook them up to the light kit output of the remote receiver unit. Normally the it would be hooked up to a light kit hanging from the fan, but it works just fine with other lights. Just make sure you stay below the max wattage rating of the remote receiver. This is normally 300 watts, so you could install four 65 watt lights.

Hopefully I've explained myself clearly enough. I have actually done this in my house, but I don't control 4 can lights. Instead I control 1 recessed light with two 100 watt bulbs. Because of my textured ceilings, I was afraid to remove the light because I knew I would never be able to patch the ceiling corrrectly. So the light is actually located in between two new fans, and I use the light output control of one of the fan remotes to control the light. I also installed new recessed lights in addition to the fans, but the total wattage was way over the limit of the fan controller, so I had to run new power to all the lights.

v1rtu0s1ty said:

Here is my problem when I pull new circuit from the main panel. All of the wires that were installed by our builder are all inside a conduit pipe. And I also remember seeing bends like 90 degrees and some ends on a junction.

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Hmmm, something caught my eye in your post. One: You mentioned conduit and Two: You are the state of Ill.

I believe you need to use EMT conduit for these runs, but might be mistaken. I'm going off my memory (i.e. scary) here but I remember other members posting about running conduit for all their electrical runs when they are from Ill.

Check with your local electrical supply house or local authority with jurisdiction.

Be sure the cone of light from the new fixtures is beyond the fan blades, otherwise the strobe effect can be a disaster.