[off topic] how to add recessed lights

[Steve]

Looks like its all open, should be very easy then. But, looking at that picture and then back at the original one it seems to me you really need more than 4 cans. Is this for general lighting for the whole room? It looks like only 8' ceiling which is also going to limit the amount of light that hits the living space. Lighting needs to be designed propely or you will spend alot of time and money and you won't be happy. Without getting into exact specs or anything I would say you should have at least 6 if not 8 cans in that space and put them on a dimmer. Any if not for the amount or brightness of the light, at least for the evenness.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Good catch Steve. Vaughn, what are your room's dimensions?

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Looks like its all open, should be very easy then. But, looking at that picture and then back at the original one it seems to me you really need more than 4 cans. Is this for general lighting for the whole room? It looks like only 8' ceiling which is also going to limit the amount of light that hits the living space. Lighting needs to be designed propely or you will spend alot of time and money and you won't be happy. Without getting into exact specs or anything I would say you should have at least 6 if not 8 cans in that space and put them on a dimmer. Any if not for the amount or brightness of the light, at least for the evenness.

It's a 9' ceiling. The room is 19'x13.5. The 19' is from the fireplace to the end corner of right wall. I will actually put 2 eyeball near the fireplace but I think, that's only for accent. I've been telling my wife that 4 cans isn't enough. I was actually thinking of 8 cans.

Thanks Steve. I will show this to my wife that 4 isn't enough.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Good catch Steve. Vaughn, what are your room's dimensions?

It's 19' x 13.5'. I will tell her that 4 cans will look crap and visitors will make fun of it and talk about it afterwards. Hahaha.

 

[sic0048]

The good news is that you have attic access above the ceiling. This will make installing the cans and wiring them very easy. The hardest part will be running a wire from the switch, up the wall, and into the attic. That isn't that hard either. You can run the wires for the cans over top of the ceiling joists which means no drilling.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I have another good news. 8 cans were approved. Now, I need to properly design where to put the lights. All I know is that once it looks evenly on both sides plus all the notes I was told earlier, it should be good.

About the wall, it's fine if I remove an 8'x4' wall. It would be easier for me to put a new wall and just have her paint it again after my task.

 

[CORT]

I'm so so happy and lucky. I watched our pre-drywall meeting video and noticed the joist they put in the family room. So I pulled my constructions pics dvd and found this.

Ceiling Trusses! You are golden. The more lights you install, the more access points you have to fish wires, and the easier it is. Thus, your 8 lights will be better than 4 for many reasons. Get a hole saw for your drill that is the right size for the lights (or adjustable diameter), because cutting each hole with a keyhole saw by hand will be tedious and slow. The $20+ spent on the hole saw will be well worth the expense. Make sure you choose "remodel" lights that can be installed through said holes.

Your next hurdle is to find out what type of wire to use: non-metallic sheath wire (i.e. Romex) or flexible conduit (i.e. Greenfield). Be aware that conduit systems require lots of little bits and pieces to get the connections right. Call your local electrical inspector and ask him/her what type of wire you are required to use. Plus, you may find that you are required to pull a permit for this job--do it right so that your homeowner's insurance applies if there is a fault.

I would consider leaving the existing 2 gang switch box alone as it has three different conduits coming into it. You will find it is a real pain to tear out the 2 gang and replace it with a 3 or 4 gang--it is possible, but very time consuming. However, for the right aesthetic and ergonomic, removing the old switch box is preferred--it will likely require patching the wall to get the old switch box out. You just need to decide how much of an effort you want this project to be. Second thought--Is there a small closet behind the switch? If so, work in the closet rather than the room. You could conceivably tear out the sheetrock in the back of a closet and not damage any of the room's existing wallboard. I can't quite tell from your pics where the switch box is located. Make sure your EE friend is available when you do the job and has a voltmeter/tester if you don't already have one. You will also want an electronic stud finder to make sure your ceiling holes clear the trusses. You'll need a good fish tape or a fiberglass push stick (glow rod) too--my preference is for the fish tape. I would budget 3-5 days worth of weekend time to complete the project. It's actually a pretty involving project, but I think you will be please with the result.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

 

[pete_c]

Bending and placing conduit in finished walls isn't too difficult. With a fish tape and if there only 3 wires in a pipe you can easily pull more wire. Where its a bit tight I've used multiple pieces of conduit.

New conduit electric cans and boxes are easy. The art of bending conduit is the most difficult part.

I built an "office center" in the closet of my home office. I worked from the attic putting one electrical box in the wall dropping conduit into a box which I placed in the back wall of the officecenter. I ran with two 90 degree bends in the attic to another wall with the closet light switch. In that can ran another pair of wires non switched to the outlet. While I was running that wire I thought it would be nice to to add more light to where the printers are located so I put another switch in the switch can for under shelf mini halogen lights.

The contractor in my current home didn't put enough outlets in my garage. I put new outlets near each of the front coach lights by cutting a hole in the drywall behind each light in the garage. I then put conduit and boxes in with 90's going to the coach light boxe. I then ran a new circuit and cable from the garage light switch to the overhead boxes ( 2 pairs - lights and garage door outlets) down to the coach light boxes then from these to the outlet boxes. The most difficult part here was fishing the new wire.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Ceiling Trusses! You are golden. The more lights you install, the more access points you have to fish wires, and the easier it is. Thus, your 8 lights will be better than 4 for many reasons. Get a hole saw for your drill that is the right size for the lights (or adjustable diameter), because cutting each hole with a keyhole saw by hand will be tedious and slow. The $20+ spent on the hole saw will be well worth the expense. Make sure you choose "remodel" lights that can be installed through said holes.

I'm going to look for the one that can be adjusted. Thanks for the tip.

Your next hurdle is to find out what type of wire to use: non-metallic sheath wire (i.e. Romex) or flexible conduit (i.e. Greenfield). Be aware that conduit systems require lots of little bits and pieces to get the connections right. Call your local electrical inspector and ask him/her what type of wire you are required to use. Plus, you may find that you are required to pull a permit for this job--do it right so that your homeowner's insurance applies if there is a fault.

I would consider leaving the existing 2 gang switch box alone as it has three different conduits coming into it. You will find it is a real pain to tear out the 2 gang and replace it with a 3 or 4 gang--it is possible, but very time consuming. However, for the right aesthetic and ergonomic, removing the old switch box is preferred--it will likely require patching the wall to get the old switch box out. You just need to decide how much of an effort you want this project to be. Second thought--Is there a small closet behind the switch? If so, work in the closet rather than the room. You could conceivably tear out the sheetrock in the back of a closet and not damage any of the room's existing wallboard. I can't quite tell from your pics where the switch box is located. Make sure your EE friend is available when you do the job and has a voltmeter/tester if you don't already have one. You will also want an electronic stud finder to make sure your ceiling holes clear the trusses. You'll need a good fish tape or a fiberglass push stick (glow rod) too--my preference is for the fish tape. I would budget 3-5 days worth of weekend time to complete the project. It's actually a pretty involving project, but I think you will be please with the result.

Good luck. Let us know how it goes.

Got it. I do have the voltmeter and stud finder. I remember, I also have a metal fish tape. I'll have to find it in the basement. Yep, I'll keep everyone posted.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

Bending and placing conduit in finished walls isn't too difficult. With a fish tape and if there only 3 wires in a pipe you can easily pull more wire. Where its a bit tight I've used multiple pieces of conduit.

New conduit electric cans and boxes are easy. The art of bending conduit is the most difficult part.

The bending of the conduit on an installed studs is still a mystery to me. I'll have to search for some videos of it in youtube.

I built an "office center" in the closet of my home office. I worked from the attic putting one electrical box in the wall dropping conduit into a box which I placed in the back wall of the officecenter. I ran with two 90 degree bends in the attic to another wall with the closet light switch. In that can ran another pair of wires non switched to the outlet. While I was running that wire I thought it would be nice to to add more light to where the printers are located so I put another switch in the switch can for under shelf mini halogen lights.

The contractor in my current home didn't put enough outlets in my garage. I put new outlets near each of the front coach lights by cutting a hole in the drywall behind each light in the garage. I then put conduit and boxes in with 90's going to the coach light boxe. I then ran a new circuit and cable from the garage light switch to the overhead boxes ( 2 pairs - lights and garage door outlets) down to the coach light boxes then from these to the outlet boxes. The most difficult part here was fishing the new wire.

Cool!

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

There are a lot of things to worry about with conduit.

1. Are you going to use 1/2" or 3/4" (depends on wiring number)
2. You can get pre bent 90 degree sections if you don't have a bender
3. You can get a cheap manual bender from the hardware store, just get a good iron pipe for its handle
4. You need to make sure you deburr the conduit after cutting it with a tube cutter or else you will knick the insulation on the wiring as you pull it through.
5. I hate a lot of 90 degree bends and will use the smaller 'junctions' so I can access the wiring to make a pull easier.
6. Make sure you secure the conduit with hangers as needed

 

[CORT]

I am curious to know why there is all this discussion of bending conduit, rigid conduit, etc. when fexible conduit is so readily available? I wouldn't touch rigid conduit for this project unless it was mandated by code.

 

[Steve]

On the hole cutting. Whatever you do, DO NOT get this type of adjustable cutter. I got it in home depot and tried it simply because it has the dust shield like the expensive ones, but it STINKS and I promise you it will mangle your holes. You will curse it halfway thru your first hole. This type with a small knife like blade may work better, I don't know, but its more like the pro style hole cutters. This style will likely work pretty well too. I tried the first one simply because of the dust shield. If you require a dust shield, spend the $100+ on the pro model. As for me, I went back to my tried and true dremel. Using my dremel with the hole cutter guide the holes were very fast to cut and came out perfect. They always have its just I always got a face full of dust. This time I learned a tip, cut in the opposite direction (counter-clockwise I think) and there is virtually no dust! It mostly shoots up into the ceiling instead of down onto you. Personally I would invest in a dremel before a good hole cutter because you will get so much more use out of it.

On the conduit, it will be impossible to use EMT except for the riser from the switch to the ceiling space. If conduit is required, the flexible Greenfield will be your only option that I can see and in that case you don't need to worry about any bending, etc. The reason for this is that the remodel cans have the electrical box on an arm and you need to bring the wire out thru the hole and wire it to the can then insert the whole thing back into the ceiling. That will be near impossible to do with rigid conduit. At least with the Greenfield you will have the freedom to toss it around like romex. But, I don't know the codes in that State, so check with your local AHJ.

Edit: Always happens, I started typing this before CORT's previous post, so my comment about conduit are redundant.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

I am curious to know why there is all this discussion of bending conduit, rigid conduit, etc. when fexible conduit is so readily available? I wouldn't touch rigid conduit for this project unless it was mandated by code.

Oh, what I really meant on my last post was that, I am just really amazed how they do it. I'll be using flexible conduit. I spoke to a neighbor this morning and he told me he used flexible metal conduit and it was fine with the inspector. However, I don't know if he's telling the truth. Similar to what I said, on my last house, I used flexible and it was approve too. It's just 5 miles from my new house.

 

[v1rtu0s1ty]

was at HD today to write down all the prices of things I needed to buy. I spoke to an electrician(hopefully a real electrician) and he told me that the max distance between 2 recessed lights should only be 6'. He suggested that I should use those 6 ft whips. They're actually flexible metal conduit with 3 conductors and couplings/connectors at both ends. He also told me not to use flexible conduit (bx) from the switch to the first recessed light. He told me to use straight EMT conduit, a 90 degree EMT($1.67) and some 1/2" couplings.

What do you think folks?

EDIT:
I forgot to mention that he asked me what city I live and that's the time he started recommending those above.