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Poll: Facial Recognition

Do you think the use of facial recognition technology is appropriate or inappropriate?

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Would you support or oppose the use of facial recognition technology use by your local police and municipal agencies?

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#31 LarrylLix

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Posted 19 September 2020 - 07:59 PM

Are we entitled to any privacy while we are on public streets?

 

We are giving all our privacy away while in our own homes and the Internet is the major factor. If we want information about everything else, it wants information back. Tit for tat?



#32 Neurorad

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Posted 21 September 2020 - 07:43 PM

I would like the US to have an amendment giving the right to privacy, with very specific guidelines.

 

I don't believe in any 'natural' rights. It's just a very good idea, in our framework of liberties.

 

Personal opinions, but I'm not alone. If enough US citizens feel the same way, it will happen. But, I'm a realist, and it won't happen.



#33 pete_c

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 05:27 AM

Just an add here to Home Assistant / Face Recognition that you can do today with whatever doorbell camera you are using that is integrated with Home Assistant.

 

FaceLib:
  • use for Detection, Facial Expression, Age & Gender Estimation and Recognition with PyTorch
  • this repository works with CPU and GPU(Cuda)

====>  hxxps://github.com/rafale77/FaceLib



#34 pete_c

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 05:40 AM

Thinking it was mentioned here about the UK / London.
 
The police there have huge buildings with thousands of video monitors that are constantly looked at and now with upgrading cameras are starting to utilize facial recognition which really started there years ago...
 
For whatever reasons here there has always been destructive violence here at times when there should not have been.  
 
For example after 911 in Manhattan much looting took place and the looting involved taking jewelery / teeth from dead people in the street.

What you read about mostly in the media was how everybody helped everyone else at that time.
 
In Fl during evacs due to Hurricanes much looting took place.  Geez by Sarasota folks took to using boats and stealing from homes via the water.
 
Neighbor down there stayed during the last evac and sat by his pool which faced XXX bay with a shot gun and that worked twice in a span of 3 days.

#35 upstatemike

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 09:11 AM

I would like the US to have an amendment giving the right to privacy, with very specific guidelines.
 
I don't believe in any 'natural' rights. It's just a very good idea, in our framework of liberties.
 
Personal opinions, but I'm not alone. If enough US citizens feel the same way, it will happen. But, I'm a realist, and it won't happen.


A few challenges to this might be some of the existing privacy breaches that would have to be addressed by any such amendment:
 
-Credit cards are the biggest privacy offenders as they track what you pay to do or watch or purchase and where you are when you do it.
 
-Store loyalty cards are a close second because of the granularity of what they track... you want to be on the waiting list for a heart transplant with your purchase history of buying bacon, donuts.and Ice cream? Denied!
 
-ISPs know what you stream, what news outlets you favor, what YouTube videos you watch, what medical info you look up, etc. VPNs merely shift the location of where the data is collected.
 
-Cell Phones continue to be the easiest platform for monitoring live audio and video as well as harvesting contacts, passwords, financial information, etc.
 
-Digital assistants can obviously harvest live audio and video as can video doorbells or IP cameras set to be viewed remotely.
 
-All cloud based services that collect fitness or sleep info, track occupancy or energy usage, or employ geofencing and GPS in general would have to be banned.
 
- All data collected by any business or government entity on any form or application whatsoever would have to be severely limited. It does not matter what guarantee they give about how they use your data because it has been shown that NO organization is capable of preventing any data they store from being stolen and used by criminals. This includes the CIA, NSA, IRS, credit reporting agencies, corporations, hospitals, and insurance companies who have all been hacked in recent years. The only way to insure privacy is to not collect the information in the first place because no entity has been 100% successful in protecting it.
 
Once the new law addressed all of these existing privacy issues it could begin to consider the more esoteric threats like facial recognition.


Edited by upstatemike, 22 September 2020 - 09:07 PM.


#36 sic0048

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 11:23 AM

There was several pointed statements about the race of the victim, but the final statement either implied that white people think people of colour all look the same, or the victim was subjected to more than usual harassment due to his colour. It is not clear why the writer intended to exemplify his colour with several mentions of it. Skin colour was not even relavent to the point of the article other than to point out some different or unfair treatment, based on race.
 
"Mr. Williams, a lifelong resident of the Detroit area, owns no such hat, and is not a Cardinals fan," the complaint said. "He's not even a baseball fan. He is, however, Black."

 
Do you read for content? 
 
That quote you are referring to as racist is from a complaint that was filed on the police department by the ACLU .  The news agency didn't write that, it is a direct quote from the complaint.  
 
Like it or not (or believe it or not - because I don't think you will), skin color/race does make a difference too.  One of the major issues with facial recognition currently is that it produces a larger number of incorrect identifications when looking at black people vs white people.  I'm actually surprised the article doesn't go into more detail about this, but I guess the writer was focusing on the complaint rather than trying to make a larger statement about the use of facial recognition.


Edited by sic0048, 23 September 2020 - 09:05 AM.


#37 pete_c

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 11:50 AM

With AI and Face recognition / topography we are well past the issues / willy nilly rhetoric relating to race and facial recognition. 
 
The revised standards contain five minimum categories for race:
 
1 - American Indian
2 - Alaska Native
3 - Asian
4 - Black or African American
5 - Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and 
6 - White.
 
There are two categories for ethnicity: "Hispanic or Latino" and "Not Hispanic or Latino."Apr 8, 2015
 
How many major races are there in the world
 
The Major Divisions of the Human Race:
 
Most anthropologists recognize 3 or 4 basic races of man in existence today. These races can be further subdivided into as many as 30 subgroups.
 
Ethnographic division into races from Meyers Konversationslexikon of 1885-90 is listing:

  •     Caucasian races (Aryans, Hamites, Semites)
  •     Mongolian races (northern Mongolian, Chinese and Indo-Chinese, Japanese and Korean, Tibetan, Malayan, Polynesian, Maori, Micronesian, Eskimo, American Indian),
  •     Negroid races (African, Hottentots, Melanesians/Papua, “Negrito”, Australian Aborigine, Dravidians, Sinhalese)

 

 

Maybe 30 years ago this was a problem.  It is not today. 



#38 Neurorad

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Posted 22 September 2020 - 07:36 PM

A few challenges to this might be some of the existing privacy breaches that would have to be addressed by any such amendment:
 
-Credit cards are the biggest privacy offenders as they track what you pay to do or watch or purchase and where you are when you do it.
 
-Store loyalty cards are a close second because of the granularity of what they track... you want to be on the waiting list for a heart transplant with your purchase history of buying bacon, donuts.and Ice cream? Denied!
 
-ISPs know what you stream, what news outlets you favor, what UTube videos you watch, waht medical info you look up, etc. VPNs merely shift the location of where the data is collected.
 
-Cell Phones continue to be the easiest platform for monitoring live audio and video as well as harvesting contacts, passwords, financial information, etc.
 
-Digital assistants can obviously harvest live audio and video as can video doorbells or IP cameras set to be viewed remotely.
 
-All cloud based services that collect fitness or sleep info, track occupancy or energy usage, or employ geofencing and GPS in general would have to be banned.
 
- All data collected by any business or government entity on any form or application whatsoever would have to be severely limited. It does not matter what guarantee they have about how they use your data because it has been shown that NO organization is capable of preventing any data they store from being stolen and used by criminals. This includes the CIA, NSA, IRS, credit reporting agencies, corporations, hospitals, and insurance companies who have all been hacked in recent years. The only way to insure privacy is to not collect the information in the first place because no entity has been 100% successful in protecting it.
 
Once the new law addressed all of these existing privacy issues it could begin to consider the more esoteric threats like facial recognition.

Yes! That is what we need! You are absolutely correct. Rules governing the rights of private citizens of the US.

 

Most people will agree to the use of their data, for free/cheap tools. Some will not.

 

Again, I don't think it will happen. Too much $$$ for corporations, who own the government.



#39 LarrylLix

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 08:01 AM

With AI and Face recognition / topography we are well past the issues / willy nilly rhetoric relating to race and facial recognition. 
 
The revised standards contain five minimum categories for race:
 
1 - American Indian
2 - Alaska Native
3 - Asian
4 - Black or African American
5 - Native Hawaiian or Other Pacific Islander, and 
6 - White.
 
There are two categories for ethnicity: "Hispanic or Latino" and "Not Hispanic or Latino."Apr 8, 2015
 
How many major races are there in the world
 
The Major Divisions of the Human Race:
 
Most anthropologists recognize 3 or 4 basic races of man in existence today. These races can be further subdivided into as many as 30 subgroups.
 
Ethnographic division into races from Meyers Konversationslexikon of 1885-90 is listing:

  •     Caucasian races (Aryans, Hamites, Semites)
  •     Mongolian races (northern Mongolian, Chinese and Indo-Chinese, Japanese and Korean, Tibetan, Malayan, Polynesian, Maori, Micronesian, Eskimo, American Indian),
  •     Negroid races (African, Hottentots, Melanesians/Papua, “Negrito”, Australian Aborigine, Dravidians, Sinhalese)

 

 

Maybe 30 years ago this was a problem.  It is not today. 


Looks like it depends on who is defining "race". Sound similar to the fruit vs vegetable debate.  Interesting.

 

It would be nice to see how facial recognition works. The lay explanation I have seen, indicates it is all done by ratios of facial aspects. I doubt skin colour could be a significant factor as it varies with lighting, and rendering, and may not work at all with black and white photos.

 

I know dentally trained people will tell you negroid and caucasoid  people typically have different mandible structures that affect their teeth formations and therefore, outward facial structure.


Edited by LarrylLix, 23 September 2020 - 08:03 AM.


#40 upstatemike

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 08:36 AM

Yes! That is what we need! You are absolutely correct. Rules governing the rights of private citizens of the US.

 

Most people will agree to the use of their data, for free/cheap tools. Some will not.

 

Again, I don't think it will happen. Too much $$$ for corporations, who own the government.

 

Another challenge is that this ammendment will have to do away with income tax because the collection of detailed income information on every individual is too great a breach of privacy. But unless the revenue can be made up with a federal sales tax there will not be enough resources for the government to enforce privacy laws and people will actually end up with more privacy on paper but less in actual practice.



#41 sic0048

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Posted 23 September 2020 - 09:02 AM

Here are some findings from recent studies/articles that back up my statement.  There are plenty of other examples out there.....

 

https://news.mit.edu...ce-systems-0212

https://www.scientif...or-racial-bias/


Edited by sic0048, 23 September 2020 - 09:09 AM.





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