Any good or bad words about the Elk C1M1 device and ElkLink service?

[Linwood]

Cost of ownership is the whole thing with the "cloud" based services (which as an IT guy, is laughable, because all it does is move the issue to someone else's computer).
 
You're not going to find too many pro grade pieces of hardware that are DIY friendly.
 
The control of the panel isn't delegated to a website per se....just the host app is going to pass through Elk's servers or vendor, which is basically the RMR application that all vendors use. The only variable is the amount of control and feedback the downstream system offers, no matter who the vendor is (Telular, Uplink interactive, C24....whoever) and how it's accomplished.
 
When Elk killed the Java app and required software to access the XEP remotely.....that's what basically decided what devices come after the fact. Elk hasn't really updated the M1 hardware in YEARS, good or bad.

 
If the Elk/vendor servers can arm/disarm (and perhaps program) my panel, it seems likely they do, or could, store access information for it.  Moreover, since it appears a selling feature is no need for NAT/DDNS, the panel actively maintains a connection to the vendor server, basically making the access available 24x7 to anyone who "owns" that server.  
 
Now what harm they could do is problematic, since unlike a bank, access to my alarm doesn't permit a remote bad actor to actually DO a lot.  Maybe false alarms at most.  So it is not a huge issue.
 
But to me it is just a broken security model.  We have as a culture traded easy/convenient for security in some many places, this is just one more.
 
I don't need it to be DIY friendly -- I need it to be DIY permissible.  When it requires a contractor license to set up an account to get ANY access to the device (which is what it sounds like), that's different from "not friendly".  That's downright hostile.
 
But the real issue for me is loss of the email reporting.  I found that very useful.  It sounds like nothing similar even exists in the new one.
 
To your last sentence -- yes.  I wonder if the M1G will be the last real DIY alarm panel/automation.  I guess it does all I need (security system wise), it works, it is reliable.  The email/network aspect was really the biggest flaw in my mind.  I'm sure it could be made smaller, cheaper, etc.  But it works.

 

[Del91574]

There's a lot of misunderstanding on how the unit passes data and what data it passes and how. Really, there is nothing on this that is different than if an end user exposed their XEP to the outside WAN. The amount of the connectivity to the host is minimal....just a heartbeat. No data passes at that point and connectivity is trivial......it's not a PC we're talking here and there are other items in play.
 
The end user monitoring services can't arm/disarm your panel or connect to it remotely. Remember what it is...a cellular communicator that only passes data through Telular.  RP usage is no different than if you exposed your XEP to the outside world. Still requires the panel serial and RP passcode to connect to the panel. The arm/disarm portion is passthru data and authentication....just as if you exposed your XEP to the outside world, none of that comes via Telular. The data portion is passthru on the NAT IP either from your ISP or the cellular ISP.

 

[ecborgoyn]

I realize that I started this thread a while back....
 
But I just read some of the C1M1 docs and at least for me, I see one major design flaw with the device.  When I saw the original photos of the unit, I saw the four position terminal block on the lower-left side.  My (incorrect) assumption was that the C1M1 sits on the Elk 485 device bus...  Now that I read and understand that the device connects to the M1G RS232 port I'm MUCH less interested in the unit.
 
In my installation, the M1G panel itself is in the lower level of our home which is mostly below grade.  (OK, the side of the house with the panel is about 3/4 below grade.)  When I add a cellular communicator to the system, I would remotely install the device in a first or second floor closet.  I even thought about extending the antenna of the device up into the attic.  The location of the house w.r.t. the cellular networks would encourage me to install the unit as high as possible..  Extending the RS232 link is possible...  But why didn't Elk use it's control bus??  That would have created a much more flexible architecture.  Granted that that is would have meant more s/w mods to the M1G.  But why not?  I understand that they wanted the C1M1 to also be the M1XEP replacement..  But they could have moved over to the 485 bus.  I'm sure there's sufficient bandwidth on that bus to handle the additional traffic to/from the WAN.
 
Anyway, I'm back to looking at cellular communicators that could be remotely installed and integrate via  an M1XSP.

 

[Del91574]

I realize that I started this thread a while back....
 
But I just read some of the C1M1 docs and at least for me, I see one major design flaw with the device.  When I saw the original photos of the unit, I saw the four position terminal block on the lower-left side.  My (incorrect) assumption was that the C1M1 sits on the Elk 485 device bus...  Now that I read and understand that the device connects to the M1G RS232 port I'm MUCH less interested in the unit.
 
In my installation, the M1G panel itself is in the lower level of our home which is mostly below grade.  (OK, the side of the house with the panel is about 3/4 below grade.)  When I add a cellular communicator to the system, I would remotely install the device in a first or second floor closet.  I even thought about extending the antenna of the device up into the attic.  The location of the house w.r.t. the cellular networks would encourage me to install the unit as high as possible..  Extending the RS232 link is possible...  But why didn't Elk use it's control bus??  That would have created a much more flexible architecture.  Granted that that is would have meant more s/w mods to the M1G.  But why not?  I understand that they wanted the C1M1 to also be the M1XEP replacement..  But they could have moved over to the 485 bus.  I'm sure there's sufficient bandwidth on that bus to handle the additional traffic to/from the WAN.
 
Anyway, I'm back to looking at cellular communicators that could be remotely installed and integrate via  an M1XSP.

 
Control bus is also limited, since you've only got 4k' total OAL to work with...and that's easy to hit in a house unless you plan the bus carefully and daisy accordingly. Also, keep in mind, the information sent via the bus is different than what is passed to the serial, which would require more rework to the M1 hardware/software than taking the data off the serial which is already engineered.

I'd rather run the extension antenna, but the bigger issue is it's limited length (20') and most times you wouldn't want to extend it.

 

[dvpvic]

Cost of ownership is the whole thing with the "cloud" based services (which as an IT guy, is laughable, because all it does is move the issue to someone else's computer).
 
You're not going to find too many pro grade pieces of hardware that are DIY friendly.
 
The control of the panel isn't delegated to a website per se....just the host app is going to pass through Elk's servers or vendor, which is basically the RMR application that all vendors use. The only variable is the amount of control and feedback the downstream system offers, no matter who the vendor is (Telular, Uplink interactive, C24....whoever) and how it's accomplished.
 
When Elk killed the Java app and required software to access the XEP remotely.....that's what basically decided what devices come after the fact. Elk hasn't really updated the M1 hardware in YEARS, good or bad.

I'm wanting to add backup monitoring and am looking at replacing m1xep with the c1m1. I have installer access on elks website, so not sure if I would be considered a dealer if I try and set it up. Does the c1m1 allow ip monitoring normally like you would with xep and third party apps etc?

Someone else on this forum mentioned getting a nether 4g modem coming out in a month and just have the xep connected to that as a work around for the c1m1. Are there any issues going this route? If I have the modem on battery backup UPS I don't see why that wouldn't be a good option other than that the c1mq claims direct transmission to CS vs taking hops with ip only?

 

[Del91574]

Unless you are a Telular sub-dealer or a central station, you are not going to get access to register or configure Elk's unit.
 
I wouldn't recommend putting the system after a non-ul listed for monitoring device, but that is because I am trade. Whatever you decide to do is your own decision and you'd have to deal with the possible consequences.
 
Whether or not TCP/IP monitoring, packet loss and latency is a concern varies, also depends on your CS protocol.

 

[mayermd]

I just received and installed a C1M1.  It replaces the M1XEP as mentioned in some of the threads above.  It connects to the M1G the same way as the M1XEP, via the RS232 port and receives power from the Vaux on the M1G.  I attached it to the same ethernet cable that the M1XEP used and searched for the C1M1 via the ELKRP software.  It was located immediately and I change the IP to the same IP as the M1XEP had.  My ISY is able to detect arm/disarm etc just as it was able to with the XEP.  I am getting set up with Alarm Relay to monitor my alarm and activate the C1M1 via their telguard account.  That is the major drawback I have found to the C1M1, there is very little configuration you can do on your own and you have to use a monitoring station with the ability to activate it on the Telguard network.  The monthly rate for monitoring with Alarm Relay is considerably higher, at 23.95/month, with the addition of the cellular service.
 
I use Mobilic as my mobile software to control my ISY, with the ELK plugin installed.  All continues to function as before.

 

[jlegault]

Can you use it as an XEP and not bother with the cellular link? My XEP died, and I'm wondering if this might be a more robust replacement for the XEP. Again, I don't need the cellular link. Price is similar if you think about buying multiple XEPs as thet die, so price difference between the two does not matter to me. I'm looking for reliability.

 

[dvpvic]

I wonder about the same issue with XEP...


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[Carlton Bale]

I am getting set up with Alarm Relay to monitor my alarm and activate the C1M1 via their telguard account.  That is the major drawback I have found to the C1M1, there is very little configuration you can do on your own and you have to use a monitoring station with the ability to activate it on the Telguard network. 

 
Can you share the settings you used to point the C1M1 to AlarmRelay? I have an AlarmRelay subscription and I don't need the Telguard service. I'm hoping the C1M! can connect to my existing account if configured properly.

 

[Arcfault]

I know this is a dated thread... but I figured give everyone an update on the C1M1 since it's relatively new to my area.
 
The C1M1 replaced an M1-XEP internet module and Uplink 4500EZ radio.  I have NO complaints about the old configuration, but I had to update for other reasons.  The 4500 transmitted full CID with zone reporting within approx 2 seconds.  The M1 system sent duplicates of the alarm/trouble/etc via IP and radio, so the central station had 2 copies of each event, both within 2-3 seconds.  Worked great.  The radio had a fault relay on board that I had wired to an input zone for supervision, and I setup an automatic ping every few minutes to the XEP from offsite.  In effect it was monitored from multiple angles.
 
The only weird thing with the old setup:  the keypad panic zones would transmit as a different zone number depending if it was transmitted via IP or radio.  I just duplicated the panic zones on the central station's zone list the accommodate the possible different zone assignment numbers.
 
 
 
Now that I have the C1M1 installed- there are some mixed results.  I had to upgrade the firmware of the panel to support the new radio.  The mobile app M1 Touch connects a little faster.  Cool.
 
All custom emails and notifications are no longer supported.  The new notifications available are very generic and setup via ElkLink online.  You can send arm/disarm events, full alarms, and troubles.  Extremely generic messages.  Does NOT support more than one partition.  No customization available.  Not happy.
 
All users now share a single user ID to log in.  You also have to create an additional user in your panel with a new user code- the mobile app uses this code to arm/disarm the system.  In other words... if you and the family had separate user ID's before, the app will only use and display the one single mobile ID that you now share.
 
In a nutshell, if you have a "normal" system and want dual path monitoring then the C1M1 is for you- it's fast, easy, and reliable.  If you have a relatively complicated system, or want any custom notification for events, find a different option.
 
 
On a side note... Anyone want a C1M1-LTE (Verizon LTE) radio?  Like new condition, only 3 hours old.  I'll give you a 2 year warranty.  Paid $290.  I'm serious.

 

[giesen]

I'm in the middle of doing a C1M1 self-install and I'll add a few things I've discovered as well.
 

1. The C1M1 requires outbound access to the following hosts/ports:

• UDP port 67/68 for DHCP (only required within your local LAN).
• TCP/UDP port 53 to your DNS servers - Used for name resolution.
• ICMP to www.google.com (will be resolved via DNS) - Used for Internet connectivity test.
• TCP port 8888 to 38.110.61.54 - (appears to be hard-coded and not resolved via DNS, or is resolved via DNS on the 3G side only) - This is the persistent connection to the ElkLink portal.
• UDP port 3061 to 216.151.46.13 (default primary CS) - Used for sending alarm reports (IP and/or port may change depending on configuration).
• UDP port 3061 to 216.151.47.13 (default backup CS)- Used for sending alarm reports (IP and/or port may change depending on configuration).

 
      2. The C1M1 supports DHCP only, no static IP:

• While it looks like earlier versions of the C1M1 Configuration Utility may have supported configuring a static IP, in the latest version (1.2.24) the option is grayed out, and Automatic (DHCP) is the only option.
• If you need a "static" IP, you'll have to use a DHCP reservation.
• If the device is unable to ping www.google.com, it will keep releasing and renewing the LAN IP over and over, every few minutes (don't ask me how I know).
• When DHCP is renewed, any connections to the API/management port (2101 non-secure, 2102 secure, by default) will drop. This means if you have your Elk integrated with something else (an ISY994i, for example), and your Internet goes down, then it will keep dropping the connection. Not great for integrators.

 
      3. C1M1 Configuration Utility (also called the C1M1 Diagnostic Utility, or the C1M1 Config Tool, depending on which documentation you look at):

• Is available to dealers only.
• Can program primary and backup CS.
• Can enable/disable inbound LAN access (secure/non-secure). This is required for enabling the secure port, which is by default different than the M1XEP.
• Enable device discovery for AMX/Control4.
• Enable/disable report of LAN and Cellular failures, and the threshold (in minutes).
• Does not require the ELK-USBCM USB cable, any ordinary USB A to USB mini-B cable will do. Windows will automatically install drivers for the FTDI serial chip embedded in the C1M1.

 
      4. Not well-supported in Canada:

• The only Elk retailer in Canada who was carrying the C1M14GSM (Aartech) no longer carries it.
• According to Alarm Relay, the C1M1 is "banned" in Canada (their words, not mine). The fact that Aartech no longer carries it seems to support some version of this story.
• Alarm Relay will activate a C1M1 in Canada, but you have to pay USD $23.95 (the cost of full IP + 3G monitoring), except they cannot actually provide the 3G component (it becomes IP monitoring only). This is presumably because they have to pay TelGuard/Telular the fee regardless. If you don't care about the ElkLink services or dual-path reporting, you may be able to get it at their standard USD $9.95 IP monitoring rate (assuming you have access to the C1M1 Configuration Utility).
• The C1M1 comes with a Mini SIM (2FF), but it could not find a network. I popped in a Rogers Mini SIM and it registered on the network, but I have no idea if alarm reporting will work over this (have my doubts). Supposedly Rogers is the Telular partner network in Canada. I will follow up later.
• Since Alarm Relay will not support the 3G in Canada, I will likely implement my own 3G failover solution using a Mikrotik router (there are lots of other options available for this as well). Of course not UL/ULc-certified, but since I don't have any UL/ULc-certified solutions available to me, not likely to be any worse either.
• I've found another local alarm company based in Mississauga, ON who specializes in Elk (RenPark Security - http://www.renparksecurity.com) who appears to offer C1M1 monitoring (including dual-path with GSM) for approximately CAD $46.00/mo. I'm not sure who they contract out CS services to. I'm still flushing out the details on this option, but no doubt it's pricey.

 
I have my appointment with Alarm Relay to set up the C1M1 next week, so if in meantime anyone has better options for monitoring a C1M1, I'm all ears. I'll also update with any more details gleaned during the install process. I debated over getting the C1M1 (despite already knowing a few, but not all of its warts), but after having gone through two M1XEPs already, I was looking for something a little more reliable. We'll see if this works out, although the DHCP recycling has already become a real annoyance.