Any word on new ELK products??

[ddennerline]

I wish Elk would correct some current deficiencies and add a few other features. Some of the items below can be worked around using some custom engineered solution. Having a less expensive solution, both in time and money, is attractive.

1. Variable level voice. When it’s dark out-side, set level to 25% for non-alarm messages. I still want to be notified when my front yard detector goes off at 3AM in morning.
2. 100% accurate lighting solution whether it’s UBP or ZWave. The M1XSP/VRC0P integration does not support all Z-Wave command classes. It doesn’t support scenes. It doesn’t support low-priority polling.
3. Support for humidity sensor (actually a temp/humidity combination)
4. Accurate temperature support. It was extremely cold this week, the Elk-M1TZS stats were off by a large margin. I know that I can “tune” them, but I don’t understand why they leave the factory without being properly calibrated.
5. A reasonably priced (under $300) multi-line display keypad. A screen large enough to display important factoids such as current time, outside temperature, tomorrows weather, and current system trouble (low battery on zone 1). It would be nice if screen had a close proximity sensor that would enable backlighting without having to fumble for buttons at night.
6. Support for Z-Wave locks
7. Support for logging all inbound/outbound data to M1XSP. Having to spend money to buy a SerialTap/RS-232 adds to system cost and reduces HA ROI. In general, more diagnostic tools.
8. Support for larger set of substitutable fields in text and email messages
9. Increase output 2 power to match ELK-45 1.2A
10. A lower-cost Elk-WSV. The $430 almost reaches the cost of my homeowner’s deductible.
11. Support for mounting ElkM1G directly to Leviton/ChannelVision structured wiring box
12. A MagicModule that is capable of being plugged directly into M1G, is easily programmable using high level language, and fully supports Elk ASCII protocol.
13. Support for named counters and triggers within ElkRP. It would be possible to add support for analog sensor types such a wind speed, gps distance, water volume, and pressure and be able to write rules using those inputs.

 

[Lagerhead]

Text-to-speech.

 

[sic0048]

A lower-cost Elk-WSV. The $430 almost reaches the cost of my homeowner’s deductible.

Clearly you have never had a pipe burst in your house. Luckily I haven't either. But we have a close friend that recently bought a house and had a pipe burst before they could move in. The pipe was on the 2nd floor and likely leaked for 2 days before being discovered. Now they are living with one set of parents because the house is unlivable and they had sold their previous home. The estimate to fix the house is already over 50k and they haven't gotten all the quotes back yet. It will take at least three months once construction begins, so that is at least three more months being out of their house. They are still waiting to hear back from the insurance company how much they will pay.

Even if they had a $0 deductible and the insurance company covers 100% of their costs, I bet they would rather have paid $500 and not had any of this happen to them.

$500 (heck even $1000) is cheap insurance. The time, heartache, and loss of personal belongings (like pictures, etc) cost a heck of a lot more than that, even if the actual out of pocket expense is less.

PS - I bet most people have a deductible higher than $500 too. It just isn't worth the extra yearly expense of a lower deductible.

 

[Digger]

Certain things are not replaceable if they are damaged in a flood so that is even more reason in my opinion.

Its not just the valve that is important. The amount of water sensors and there placement is also a key part of the equation. I have several in each bathroom, two in the kitchen, and several in the basement.

 

[jlegault]

My wish list is easy:

1) Rock solid lighting control and programming (UPB may be the ticket, but I have not tried it). ZWAVE is most definitely not rock solid on the M1, so I have to use homeseer - I'd rather be completely in hardware.
2) Native programming support for 1-wire sensors
3) More custom variables. I need about 10-15 more. I use these to store values that are used by many different rules, like HVAC rules, sprinkler zone times, trigger timers - basically making parametric rules that are easier to manage overall.

 

[Del91574]

I wish Elk would correct some current deficiencies and add a few other features. Some of the items below can be worked around using some custom engineered solution. Having a less expensive solution, both in time and money, is attractive.

1. Variable level voice. When it’s dark out-side, set level to 25% for non-alarm messages. I still want to be notified when my front yard detector goes off at 3AM in morning.
2. 100% accurate lighting solution whether it’s UBP or ZWave. The M1XSP/VRC0P integration does not support all Z-Wave command classes. It doesn’t support scenes. It doesn’t support low-priority polling.
3. Support for humidity sensor (actually a temp/humidity combination)
4. Accurate temperature support. It was extremely cold this week, the Elk-M1TZS stats were off by a large margin. I know that I can “tune” them, but I don’t understand why they leave the factory without being properly calibrated.
5. A reasonably priced (under $300) multi-line display keypad. A screen large enough to display important factoids such as current time, outside temperature, tomorrows weather, and current system trouble (low battery on zone 1). It would be nice if screen had a close proximity sensor that would enable backlighting without having to fumble for buttons at night.
6. Support for Z-Wave locks
7. Support for logging all inbound/outbound data to M1XSP. Having to spend money to buy a SerialTap/RS-232 adds to system cost and reduces HA ROI. In general, more diagnostic tools.
8. Support for larger set of substitutable fields in text and email messages
9. Increase output 2 power to match ELK-45 1.2A
10. A lower-cost Elk-WSV. The $430 almost reaches the cost of my homeowner’s deductible.
11. Support for mounting ElkM1G directly to Leviton/ChannelVision structured wiring box
12. A MagicModule that is capable of being plugged directly into M1G, is easily programmable using high level language, and fully supports Elk ASCII protocol.
13. Support for named counters and triggers within ElkRP. It would be possible to add support for analog sensor types such a wind speed, gps distance, water volume, and pressure and be able to write rules using those inputs.

The keypads are already multi-line and you can select what is displayed, including temp and troubles. If you're looking at weather or other bells and whistles, you're honestly looking at a touchscreen.

The voice can be changed volume-wise by putting in a soak or if you really want to be elegant, then disconnect the speakers based on time. I've been using their 32 ohm units and balancing the loads until I hit the magic 8 number by simple ohm's law, then any volume or tweaks, I pull pairs off using relay taps, then I have rules based on time of day to enable/disable the voice. Worked on plenty of the M1's I've installed, as well as kept the clients happy.

The better way for you to run output 2 is to use speakers instead of sirens, that way current limitations don't come into play as much. If you're running more than the current protected by the PTC, you're better off running your devices from an aux supply triggered by the panel, and that's just not Elk, but 95% of the panels out there are the same as far as current and siren/alarms go.

While I agree that temp sensors should be accurate, one must look at what they are comparing it to as well as the general tolerance of the devices that are installed. Even big dollar equipment must be field calibrated when compared to a known piece of test equipment. I hate to say it, but nature of the beast (as a pro installer speaking)

While I can see your point about the other manufacturer's enclosures, I think Elk has it better, the only thing lacking is they're limited to 28", but their enclosures support all the manufacturer's devices, including their own. I think that's a better way to go personally. If anything, I'd like to have a 42" Elk OEM enclosure that already has the holes and slots like their 28" already does.]

I pulled up my account and a few of my others and I don't get where you don't see named counters and triggers, because it's all right there in RP2, unless I'm looking at something different.

Rather than the GPS and mumbo stuff, the ability to use an analog zone, barring the hysterisis involved, but use the zone to display the value of the sensor input in percentages or true values (IE: your windspeed) would be a far better application. Using a platform similar to the fire panels I've worked with, the industry standard for most analog detectors would be a 4-20mA unit, then it would just need to be integrated that way, then use texts to display the appropriate precurorary text followed by the value (dewpoint, windspeed, etc.)

I don't know, maybe me being a pro integrator and security guy, I see people asking this panel to do everything including the dishes for their own individual applications rather than what would be more benefitial and cost effective to bring to market or actually implement.

I'd be happier if they added a couple of 2 wire fire loops or ways to add them via expansion. A larger than 2A data bus power supply would be nice. If I really wanted to push it, an easy way to integrate with something like Fire-Lite's MS25 addressable panel and report easily to each other would be really nice, because I doubt the majority of the installs out there exceed 25 addressable smoke/heats and 25 monitor modules.

 

[tmbrown97]

I'd like to see some sort of structured media backplate like HAI has; I hated drilling into my new CV 50" can just to hang it, but couldn't find anything that wouldn't look ridiculous.

Elk does UPB very nicely - the only limitation is in tracking the status of lights affected by a Scene - but it controls them reliably every time.

 

[ddennerline]

I do agree that a flood is a catastrophic event and without question if you had a flood prevention system that it should be high quality. In my small circle of family and friends, I don’t know anyone that has a flood protection system. Even if I told them they could install one for $500 (parts only), they would probably say, “Gee that’s pretty neat, but for $500, I would rather have a nice vacation in Mexico.” Convincing some of my family to invest in better virus protection program costing an extra $10 can be a challenge.

I know a few people that have suffered large losses due to bad dishwasher or water heater, but even post mortem, they did not install any flood protection system (e.g., watercop).

I am hoping that Elk (or partner) could figure out a way to make high quality flood protection more affordable – the same way that a $1800 42” plasma (2yrs ago) can now be purchased for $900.

 

[nov0798]

Why couldnt you just simply use a 1" sprinkler valve, after the pressure regulator, and simply control that from the elk? It would probably be cheaper, and still work the same.

 

[ddennerline]

The keypads are already multi-line and you can select what is displayed, including temp and troubles. If you're looking at weather or other bells and whistles, you're honestly looking at a touchscreen.

My ElkRP knowledge may be lacking. Is there a method in ElkRP to display text on both upper and lower 32-character lines. I seem to only have been successful in writing rules that displays text on the bottom 32-character line. I currently have a set of rules that "billboards" text along the bottom 32-characters. I tried the scrolling text, but it wasn’t legible.

I cannot really afford the $1300 for Elk TS-071. A Honeywell CV-6272CV touchscreen keypad can be purchased for $278. The Honeywell device’s functionality is nowhere near what a TS-071 can provide, but I am living with my $142 Elk keypads – albeit I don’t like the small screen/low resolution.

The Elk 28” SMC still only has one position to mount ElkM1G as I remember. I want to be able to move things around if/when I change/add components. I really hated drilling into my 42” Leviton SMC (oh well).

 

[ddennerline]

Why couldnt you just simply use a 1" sprinkler valve, after the pressure regulator, and simply control that from the elk? It would probably be cheaper, and still work the same.

That's an interesting idea. Would there be any code or UL problems? Maybe a new thread should be started on that idea.

 

[ddennerline]

2) Native programming support for 1-wire sensors
3) More custom variables. I need about 10-15 more. I use these to store values that are used by many different rules, like HVAC rules, sprinkler zone times, trigger timers - basically making parametric rules that are easier to manage overall.

+1 for native ElkRP 1-wire sensor integration that supports multiple 1-wire sensors (not Elk-M1KAM). This may provide a solution to humidity and accurate temperature sensing. During the cold spell, multiple digital thermometers located in cars and cheap Oregon Scientific all correlated pretty closely. The Elk temp. was only one that was significantly different (off by 10 degrees).

+1 for custom variables. 20 seems to be very small number.

 

[tmbrown97]

Why couldnt you just simply use a 1" sprinkler valve, after the pressure regulator, and simply control that from the elk? It would probably be cheaper, and still work the same.

While this would probably work for a little while, I'd assume it wouldn't last long. Sprinkler valves consume power the whole time the solenoid is open - so you have to keep the power applied as long as you want water to flow. I don't think the solenoid is going to live up to that constant open for weeks/months/years at a time.

The other shutoff valves like the watercop or Elk's shut off only consume power while rotating the valve either on or off; the rest of the time they just sit in that position. This makes them much better suited for long-term operation. Not to mention, with the sprinkler-valve option, you'll lose water when you lose power; they use 16VAC, which isn't nearly as easy to back up as the 12V DC that's used by Elk's shutoff valve.

 

[sic0048]

I know a few people that have suffered large losses due to bad dishwasher or water heater, but even post mortem, they did not install any flood protection system (e.g., watercop).

I would hope that is because they are simply ignorant to the possibilities.

[end reply]

The problem with water cop and the other "detection" devices is that it won't protect you much against the burst pipe (unless you happen to get "lucky" and it bursts right next to a sensor). Those systems are designed to protect against the overflowing washing machine, the burst washing machine water connection, an overflowing or leaking toilet, the leaking sink, etc, etc, etc. Honestly they are pretty limiting in what they protect against and maybe that is one reason why they are not more popular.

IMHO the most effective solution would be to build a system that turns off the water automatically every time the alarm is armed away/vacation. Of course you would need to build in some logic to allow a washing machine or dishwasher to finish its cycle if it is running when the alarm is set, but that should be easily doable with some current sensors and a timer. Then using some sort of water leak detection sensors would also give you extra protection for when the alarm is not armed away/vacation. But that is of secondary importance IMHO and not much help without the first layer of protection. Although any level of protection is better than none.

 

[Del91574]

I'd like to see some sort of structured media backplate like HAI has; I hated drilling into my new CV 50" can just to hang it, but couldn't find anything that wouldn't look ridiculous.

Elk does UPB very nicely - the only limitation is in tracking the status of lights affected by a Scene - but it controls them reliably every time.

Elk does have the structured backplate, the part # is listed in their UL listings section.