Any word on new ELK products??

[Del91574]

My ElkRP knowledge may be lacking. Is there a method in ElkRP to display text on both upper and lower 32-character lines. I seem to only have been successful in writing rules that displays text on the bottom 32-character line. I currently have a set of rules that "billboards" text along the bottom 32-characters. I tried the scrolling text, but it wasn’t legible.

I cannot really afford the $1300 for Elk TS-071. A Honeywell CV-6272CV touchscreen keypad can be purchased for $278. The Honeywell device’s functionality is nowhere near what a TS-071 can provide, but I am living with my $142 Elk keypads – albeit I don’t like the small screen/low resolution.

The Elk 28” SMC still only has one position to mount ElkM1G as I remember. I want to be able to move things around if/when I change/add components. I really hated drilling into my 42” Leviton SMC (oh well).

You can mount the M1 in 3 separate locations in the 28, top, middle, or bottom, but it determines where you can mount the peripherals. I've been using the top in the 28" and using the bottom left for boards, right for full width units. You can use another manu's can, UL listed with the panel if you follow Elk's documentation, however you lose the advantage of being able to use the board slides and the slightly denser unit packing.

There's no comparison to Honeywell's equipment and Elk, especially the touchscreens, as you've noted, but the main thing is you're looking at a TS that goes up against TS's for other systems that cost 4 times the amount.

Let me know if you're looking for a TS, I probably have one or two from a demo around that I'd let go for less than the price you said.

 

[Quixote_1]

Based on my somewhat limited experience with the Elk M1G, I would like to see more memory, better scripting logic and variables.

 

[tmbrown97]

Elk does have the structured backplate, the part # is listed in their UL listings section.

Wow - I would've never found that... it's a specific OnQ part which is even hard to find info on. Oh well - I already drilled it... Even still, that appears to be 9" tall and half-width, which would put your panel on either side of the enclosure, and it isn't as tall as the panel is - it would still be nice if they made one that was full-width orienting your board in the middle, and covered the full height of the M1 board.

Thx for the info though - and now that I had to actually read the UL requirements, that is pretty good info to know - just slight changes in how you install the system can make the difference in your panel being UL listed - and since I assume they made those restrictions for a good reason, I'll do my best to follow them on my own.

 

[Digger]

Wow - I would've never found that... it's a specific OnQ part which is even hard to find info on. Oh well - I already drilled it... Even still, that appears to be 9" tall and half-width, which would put your panel on either side of the enclosure, and it isn't as tall as the panel is - it would still be nice if they made one that was full-width orienting your board in the middle, and covered the full height of the M1 board.

Thx for the info though - and now that I had to actually read the UL requirements, that is pretty good info to know - just slight changes in how you install the system can make the difference in your panel being UL listed - and since I assume they made those restrictions for a good reason, I'll do my best to follow them on my own.

Elk did a nice job with breaking down the UL requirements in the installation instructions. Spanky will tell you some PIA UL Engineer required them to

They also spent the extra money to get the OnQ and GE Enclosures (GE for Commercial Burg) UL Listed with the M1.

Some of the restrictions are based on UL Requirements and others on NFPA or NEC requirements.

 

[video321]

Thx for the info though - and now that I had to actually read the UL requirements, that is pretty good info to know - just slight changes in how you install the system can make the difference in your panel being UL listed - and since I assume they made those restrictions for a good reason, I'll do my best to follow them on my own.

Do you have a link to this info? I only see the part listings on UL's site.

 

[nov0798]

While this would probably work for a little while, I'd assume it wouldn't last long. Sprinkler valves consume power the whole time the solenoid is open - so you have to keep the power applied as long as you want water to flow. I don't think the solenoid is going to live up to that constant open for weeks/months/years at a time.

The other shutoff valves like the watercop or Elk's shut off only consume power while rotating the valve either on or off; the rest of the time they just sit in that position. This makes them much better suited for long-term operation. Not to mention, with the sprinkler-valve option, you'll lose water when you lose power; they use 16VAC, which isn't nearly as easy to back up as the 12V DC that's used by Elk's shutoff valve.

I didnt think of the NO vs NC, and water loss during an electrical outage. So instead you could use one of these for about half the cost. Looks like you may have to use some sort of relay with this, but its probably still cheaper than the alternative.

http://valvesandinstruments.com/asco/asco-water-valves/asco-2-way-solenoid-valve-3-4-in-npt-120-60vac-normally-open.html

 

[video321]

There is also a 12V 3/4" version that is only $12 more ($192). The difference, besides voltage, is that it is rated 0-125 PSI vs. 0-150 for the 120V version. A 1" 120V model (no 12V) is $276. Didn't notice a torque listing.

 

[Gearhead]

I didnt think of the NO vs NC, and water loss during an electrical outage. So instead you could use one of these for about half the cost. Looks like you may have to use some sort of relay with this, but its probably still cheaper than the alternative.

http://valvesandinstruments.com/asco/asco-water-valves/asco-2-way-solenoid-valve-3-4-in-npt-120-60vac-normally-open.html

I'd be surprised if this valve is approved or designed to be used with potable water. The Elk is approved and all stainless....no lead content....I believe that all machinable brass contains lead.

 

[tmbrown97]

Do you have a link to this info? I only see the part listings on UL's site.

http://www.elkproducts.com/m1g_ul_listing.html

 

[apostolakisl]

I would hope that is because they are simply ignorant to the possibilities.

[end reply]

The problem with water cop and the other "detection" devices is that it won't protect you much against the burst pipe (unless you happen to get "lucky" and it bursts right next to a sensor). Those systems are designed to protect against the overflowing washing machine, the burst washing machine water connection, an overflowing or leaking toilet, the leaking sink, etc, etc, etc. Honestly they are pretty limiting in what they protect against and maybe that is one reason why they are not more popular.

IMHO the most effective solution would be to build a system that turns off the water automatically every time the alarm is armed away/vacation. Of course you would need to build in some logic to allow a washing machine or dishwasher to finish its cycle if it is running when the alarm is set, but that should be easily doable with some current sensors and a timer. Then using some sort of water leak detection sensors would also give you extra protection for when the alarm is not armed away/vacation. But that is of secondary importance IMHO and not much help without the first layer of protection. Although any level of protection is better than none.

This is not complex. I have the Elk WSV and via my M1G shuts the water off 30 minutes after I arm away. That gives the washers time to finish and protects against the pipe bursts in random locations while not home. I also have water sensors at each of the fixtures in my house which will shut the water off no matter what. While it is possible for a pipe to burst in a random location, most failures occur at fixtures or at locations exposed to cold. All of my pipes are run on inside walls and I wouldn't allow any in the slab. The only pipes on outside walls are hose bibs and I have them plumbed separate with a manual shut off valve that I close in the winter.

My WSV has turned on/off/on/off multiple times per day now for 2 years and is not complaining a bit. It is a solidly built item and worth the money. As mentioned, they are only active for a couple seconds while changing from on to off or vice versa. They do not need a powered solonoid to stay open. Don't mess around with sprinkler valves, they are not designed for this kind of use.

 

[Del91574]

Don't know about you guys, but I like having a valve status switch combined with the valve itself (like Elk's) so that it's giving feedback ,but if a belt/suspenders install, there'd be redundancies with a pressure switch and second valve.

 

[Digger]

Don't know about you guys, but I like having a valve status switch combined with the valve itself (like Elk's) so that it's giving feedback ,but if a belt/suspenders install, there'd be redundancies with a pressure switch and second valve.

While I to prefer the ELK valve the Watercop has dry contacts showing the status.

 

[Del91574]

Apples and oranges

 

[mustangcoupe]

OK, guys we have left the op topic a long time ago, please move this WC vs WSV to it's own thread if you wish to continue it.