God Bless America

And just to mention the "greatest nation" bit...

I have been fortunate enough to travel a fair bit. And while there are places that are much worse in the world, there are also places that are just as good. Where people are just as nice, or smart, or hard working, or whatever. I think when we get to the point where we (those of us that are American) realize that most of the world is populated be people that are mostly the same as us, it will get much better in the world.

The danger of continually telling yourself that this is the greatest country in the world, is that you start to believe that we as people are better than them as people. And that's just not true.
 
Sam, don't forget the Treaty of Tripoli, unanimously approved by the Senate on June 7, 1797 and signed by John Adams himself.

Article 11: As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquillity, of Mussulmen; and, as the said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony existing between the two countries.

Didn't forget. There's just way too much of the stuff. I wish that more people would actually read the writings of our founding fathers and not just the big 3 documents. There is an amazing amount of insight in them. They were truly enlightened and brilliant men.
 
Interesting topic and certainly one that does strike a lot of emotion … much like an Insteon bashing thread! :eek:

Seriously though, what type of response is the OP expecting? Approval? Berating? Argumentative?

This is YOUR belief in the end. Sure, it’s great to get advice and opinions. I do it myself. I only honor and value the opinions of a select group of people.

I find that as I get older, I tend to ignore those I don’t honor, value and trust. As far as those who criticize me it’s much the same way, I really don’t get offended unless the criticism comes from someone whose opinion I value (it gets me thinking more than anything). Of course I have 20 years on the OP! He will get there eventually. ;)

What if you came into my home and I asked you to take your shoes off as mentioned in one of the above responses (and this was against your belief to be shoeless away from your home)? Would you dishonor me? I’m betting not. What if I told you that it was a custom for all my guests to kiss my dog on the nose! Would you dishonor me by not doing that? Probably you would not do that because it goes against your (insert your own word here). What if you told ME that it was against your beliefs to be shoeless and asked if you could kindly keep them on? Would I be dishonoring YOU if I refused?

I’m also a Steeler fan (and yes, this IS a religion where I come from). What if you refused to stand and pound your chest in a Steeler bar whenever their fight song was played? Where do you draw the line?

The point is there are limits, values, opinions, emotions, feelings, morals, etc… as a result of being HUMAN and being exposed, influenced, brainwashed, coached, taught, etc… from our past! We are outgoing, shy, confident, loud, opinionated, tolerant, passionate, respectful, ignorant, faithful, despiteful, etc… You will never get a handful of people to totally agree on any topic, especially when it comes to religion.

America is known as the melting pot due to all its diverse cultures so you are going to get a lot more of what I described above here than anywhere else in the world! Is this a good thing? I’m just not sure but I do know I value this fact and am thankful I (along with other Americans) CAN have my religious opinion without getting run out of town, stoned, shot, or beheaded!

And yes, in my “old age†I think I’ve seen and experienced enough to have a sound basis for my above comments. This includes working with people of many different faiths and beliefs (including atheists. As a matter of fact, if you said “Bless You†to one of my atheist friends when he sneezed he will respond by saying *-You). (I do wish I had traveled more to different countries to experience various cultures, lifestyles, and religions).

I have had people trying to get me to take Jesus Christ into my life; consider myself an “Ex†Catholic, even though I had 12 years of parochial schooling; saw people of a “particular†popular religion get the “bullet proof†coat during layoffs; plus a wide variety of other experiences. I’ve seen religion give comfort to people while also seeing it mislead others down a blind-fully destructive path.

In the end, believe in yourself while still maintaining respect and tolerance for others that do this as well. It’s a difficult dance step to master (and few actually do)!

I do think it is healthy to bring up discussions such as this to make aware the different social aspects, cultures, and beliefs of our nation. We do have (elected) “HUMANS†making up the laws that govern us so creating awareness of crucial issues including religious beliefs is a good thing for our society as a whole!

Of course, what do I know? I’m just a (humble) moderator on CocoonTech and not some educated renowned religious/diversity scholar! Again, the choice is yours in the end. :D

Maybe Spock was politically correct with his departing words, “Live long and prosperâ€. After all isn’t that what we all want to do in a peaceful environment?

Respectfully,

BSR
 
Hold on. EVERYBODY STOP.

When in the hell did they stop playing Take Me Out To The Ballgame during the 7th inning stretch?

How will I ever know when to get my peanuts and crackerjacks?

For the record I'm also an atheist and I wouldn't take my hat off. The national anthem I do take my hat off and put my hand over my heart for, and there are plenty of people who don't.
 
... I would hope you would think Canada is the greatest country in the world...
I am Canadian and don't recall ever hearing a fellow Canadian proclaim that we live in the "greatest country in the world". I'm quite certain I've never said nor thought it. I live in a great country and so do you. We are free to live out our lives to our fullest potential. Many people do not have that opportunity. I'm proud of my nation's achievements as I'm sure you are of yours. However, I see far too many opportunities for improvement to allow either of us to make boasts about being "the greatest country".
 
... I would hope you would think Canada is the greatest country in the world...
I am Canadian and don't recall ever hearing a fellow Canadian proclaim that we live in the "greatest country in the world". I'm quite certain I've never said nor thought it. I live in a great country and so do you. We are free to live out our lives to our fullest potential. Many people do not have that opportunity. I'm proud of my nation's achievements as I'm sure you are of yours. However, I see far too many opportunities for improvement to allow either of us to make boasts about being "the greatest country".
Hi, 123.

A quick search of Canada and Greatest Country in the World returns over 100,000 results. In the October 2007 Speech from the Throne, I quote:

Canada is the greatest country in the world, a nation of enormous potential built through the imagination and dedication of ordinary Canadians. Canadians who have worked hard to build a better life for their families. Canadians who have joined with their neighbours to create a society founded on peace and prosperity.

Former Prime Minister Chretien often referred to Canada as the greatest country in the world. In April 2009, Prime Minister Harper released a statement that contained the following paragraph:

Today, with Canadians once again serving bravely and sacrificing so much as part of the NATO mission in Afghanistan, we must renew our pledge to never take these sacrifices for granted. We honour the heroes of Vimy, just as we honour all of the heroes who have made Canada the country it is today – quite simply the greatest country in the world.

I could cite numerous others. I'm not offended at all by these statements by Canadians. There is nothing wrong, IMHO, with Canadians feeling that way. They should. It's national pride, the same way I'm proud to be an American, of what America has accomplished, and feel I live in the greatest country. I'm also married to the greatest woman in the world, and have the greatest son. This doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement; there is always room. Striving to improve is what betters us as human beings.

Peace,

Kevin
 
Heheh, I thought Canada was the greatest country in the world when I was 19 and living in Maine, a quick jaunt across the boarder and I was sucking down some Molsen.

I think some folks are getting respect confused with persecution or intolerance. The danger comes from the folks who are so extreme in their beliefs that there is no room in their universe for someone else's views: the militant animal rights activist who values animal life over human life, the right wing pro-lifer who values life so much they assassinate doctors, the atheist who's belief in no God extends to no law or morality. You can expect certain behaviors out of someone without believing they are less a person than you. If someone comes into my home and I ask them not to smoke, I'm not persecuting them for smoking. Or am I? Should we all be able to do what we'd like as long as it follows our personal moral compass?

Of course if True Fredom of Religion means you shouldn't answer questions about your faith, how the heck are people going to become more tolerant? Osmosis? Wishful thinking? Internet Postings?
 
If someone comes into my home and I ask them not to smoke, I'm not persecuting them for smoking. Or am I? Should we all be able to do what we'd like as long as it follows our personal moral compass?

So am I to understand that you believe America to be "the Christian House", with all other religions being guests? That's certainly the insinuation there given this thread.
 
So am I to understand that you believe America to be "the Christian House", with all other religions being guests? That's certainly the insinuation there given this thread.

This is a funny conversation and side of the argument I'm on considering 1) I'm agnostic and 2) I didn't take my hat off for God Bless America either, but maybe I just like the discussion :D . I most certainly think America is a Christian country, by shear fact that almost 80% of Americans believe in God. Hence my issue with how "God Bless America" could be considered insulting when speaking in an American cultural context. There is even a phase out there for this "cultural sensitivity". It's usually applied to non-American/non-Christian issues, but works just as well here. Is "Allah bless Kuwait" insulting to me? Nope. Should people boo when someone doesn't take their hat off at a ballgame? No.
 
I find it amazing that there are 80% in this country that call themselves Christian. In my world, I would bet it's less than 60%. And of those, a whole lot are Christian in name only. Calling themselves Christian because they're supposed to. But not having done anything remotely religious since childhood.

I was brought up Catholic, but give it up quite early in life. I am one of the 16.1% classified as "no religion".
 
Hmm...based on this thread, there seems to be a high correlation between "atheist" and "home automation".

Is this simply an eventuality for all of us, given the outright contradiction we face daily in our wiring rooms to the statement "I am a God of order, not chaos."?
 
Former Prime Minister Chretien often referred to Canada as the greatest country in the world. In April 2009, Prime Minister Harper released a statement that contained the following paragraph:
...we honour all of the heroes who have made Canada the country it is today – quite simply the greatest country in the world.
Politicians say what they must in order to get re-elected. It'd be difficult to imagine them using anything other than superlatives. What you won't find are Canadian tourists informing their hosts that they are from the greatest country in the world. The term 'ugly american' wasn't invented in a vacuum.

My point was that the gentleman from Oregon's refusal to visit foreign countries, because there's no better place to be than the "greatest country in the world", is not representative of greatness but small-mindedness. Your founding fathers' visionary framework for a new nation, that was true greatness. Abiding by those ideals is what makes you a great nation, not proclamations of greatness.


It's come to my attention that we Cocooners are far more respectful of one another's views on religion and politics than on Insteon. Insteon is like the North Korea of lighting protocols.

No, I take that back! Not North Korea. Iran. There's a difference of opinion on Iran's status as a world-neighbour. With North Korea, we're all in agreement.
 
....a whole lot are Christian in name only. Calling themselves Christian because they're supposed to. But not having done anything remotely religious since childhood.
(Emphasis added - arb)

While i agree that the "Numbers" are open to interpretation because of your point..

We do need to be careful with semantics here...

I consider myself Christian and i am very firm in my faith and belief.... this is for many reasons that i won't expound on here.... (Unless someone really wants to know.. :D )

But that does not mean that i am religious...

I sometimes find very little correlation in fact and actions between organized religion and what i believe is Christian spirituality.

I found a Church family that i am comfortable with.. but when my wife and i were "Church Shopping".. let's just say that i had some real issues with some of the teachings and doings that were supposedly in the name of God. It took us a while to find a "home".

But the point of this long winded post is.... Don't confuse organized religion with any specific (Christian, Islamic, or (i assume) Jewish) spirituality or beliefs.... My observations are that though there is overlap.. it is not 1-1 correlation.

arb
 
What you won't find are Canadian tourists informing their hosts that they are from the greatest country in the world.

Just to provide an exception to any rule...

In mid 90's i went to a Toronto Blue-Jays vs Cleveland Indians game in old municipal stadium in Cleveland.

The 6 gentlemen from Canada sitting in front of us were great.. but they had no problem expounding on how much better Canada was than the United States... and that Canada truly was the greatest country in the world..

Of course.. this conversation mainly revolved around how poor of quality the American Beer was.. and how much more they had to drink in order to feel the same way they would at home...

But even our bathroom facilities paled in comparison to what they were used to at home..

Of course.. their belief that Canada was superior to all other countries didn't stop them from planning in great detail how they were going to bring back the maximum allowable amount of cigarettes and beer home... apparently Canadian taxes were significantly higher than American taxes on these items at the time.

They were an enjoyable group to spend an evening with in late august... and their (misguided in my american point of view) belief that Canada was the greatest invention since the Egyptians created the art of brewing did not lessen my opinion of them in the least.

arb
 
I find that as I get older, I tend to ignore those I don’t honor, value and trust. As far as those who criticize me it’s much the same way, I really don’t get offended unless the criticism comes from someone whose opinion I value (it gets me thinking more than anything).
...
The point is there are limits, values, opinions, emotions, feelings, morals, etc… as a result of being HUMAN and being exposed, influenced, brainwashed, coached, taught, etc… from our past! We are outgoing, shy, confident, loud, opinionated, tolerant, passionate, respectful, ignorant, faithful, despiteful, etc… You will never get a handful of people to totally agree on any topic, especially when it comes to religion.

All very true & wise, one thing i've realized in my not-accepting-that-im-middle-aged is that religion is a flashpoint. I used to not worry about the word "God" in public, until I realized that the word itself assumes others share that belief. If we, as a country, continue down our current path of loudly proclaiming our personal religious beliefs in public, we won't have to worry about the islamic nations beating us down - we'll destroy ourselves without any help at all.

If we really believe in "Freedom of Religion", we need to keep our religion to ourselves. No mention of God anywhere public, especially taxpayer funded areas. If you really believe in God, why do you need to talk about it in public? Are you that insecure in your faith that you need self-affirmation by forcing non-believers to sing songs mentioning Him, and putting it on your money?

60-80% of america may classify themselves as Christian, but that # shrinks constantly. Either we re-affirm our desire to be a secular nation, and not thrust anything into anyones face (yes, meaning freedom FROM religion), or embrace a religious state. Any other path leads to either us tearing ourselves apart, or a devastating war with the non-Christian countries of the world, or total isolationism so we never interact with one another.

Speaking for me only, i prefer a secular state, with a live-and-let-live mentality. This thread alone shows we clearly have not yet achieved a secular state, but hopefully within my lifetime...
 
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