More window sensor difficulty

M

mikefamig

Senior Member
After studying, planning, buying parts and installing my Elk system I have to say that I grossly underestimated the effort that would go into installing all of the switches.
 
I had very little trouble with the electronics but am struggling with the mechanics of installing window sensors. I've been trying to install 3/8" recessed sensors in double hung vinyl replacement windows. First I had trouble with fitting the splices and resistor in the wire hole. Now that I am past that I am not happy with the way that the sensors fit in the hole that I drilled in the vinyl window sill. The switch has a very small shoulder on it and the hole is drilled a little large so that the switch is sloppy in the hole. Add to that the fact that the vinyl is only about 1/16" thick and there is very little holding the switch in place, it's just sloppy work and I want to make it right.
 
Has anyone faced this problem before? Any solutions? I'm thinking of going to a Honeywell 944TSP 3/4" sensor or maybe gluing a thin vinyl washer to make the hole fit tighter.
 
Any help?
 
Mike.
 
Vinyl windows require a little finess when drilling and a lot of attention due to the nature of the extrusion. You need to drill very carefully and then keep the drill bit in the same exact location after passing through the first sill.
 
If you were careful with the bit and the hole is sized appropriate, then you can get ribbed sensors or winged ones to help take the slop out, but if the hole is a mess to begin with, not much is going to fix that. I'd use a 3/4" hole as an absolute last resort......it's introducing a huge hole in the extrusion and they're usually used to drain water outside via internal weep holes.
 
I've seen some guys drill a numerically smaller hole (not fractional sizes, but from a real drill index) and run them tighter, but it's a balancing act because of how much vinyl moves around in the temperature. I've also seen others use colored silicone judiciously applied to help make up the difference.
 
If you're going to go larger, use a hole saw and go very slow.
 
The reason that I like the 3/4" sensor is because it has a large shoulder to compensate for hole size. Do you know of a 3/8" sensotr with large flange/shoulder? It would be nice if you could buy a less demanding switch or a shim with built in flange that would fill the hole and accept the switch precisely.
 
Mike.
 
Without knowing how badly oversized the holes are and/or if they're ovaled/eliptical, it's hard to really suggest a solution. If the hole is monkeyed up enough were a 3/8" contact doesn't sit flush, then I'd honestly look at getting a bag of prewire plugs, sealing the holes with caulk, plugging, abandoning and redrilling and chalking the experience up to an oops. Vinyl windows need to be drilled slowly and the chip removed as you go, that's the biggest key, then you have to keep a tight arm and not move as you pop through the first sill and then go through the second.
 
There are flanged contacts that are 1/2" or 5/8" but I would strongly recommend against going against a standard trade size....many manufacturers make them obsolete or non-existent besides in catalog form. There was a company in state that used to drill all their holes 1/2" to ensure they got the trims on their prewires or other companies would have to work to get contacts in.
 
I would not recommend blazing a 3/4" hole through the vinyl. The 3/4" with a flange is more exacting than a 3/8" especially if you end up with a hole saw or get brave with a paddle bit and the larger hole introduces a whole new set of issues.
 
Look at a GRI 2120 or GE/Sentrol 1275. I had a USP arrowhead sample around here and have worked with some USP twist-locks on some jobs, but I don't think the screw head is a good idea for service purposes in most cases. I think I have part of a bag of 1275's floating around here.
 
Honeywell makes a 3/4 to 3/8 adapter part# 913-WH or 913-Br about $.35 per unit, that you might look at if the 3/4" hole is your option.But I agree smaller is better.
 
How do you remove the GE 1275 down the road if you need to? It looks like it would notcome back out of the hole easily.
 
Mike.
 
Yeah here historically I was very impressed with the pre-wire stuff the security company did for one new home during construction. 
 
On an endeavor during new home construction helping a friend of 30 years. (not the engineering / computer type)
 
Most if not all of the windows's stuff went into (discussions) the cost of the hardware (well windows) and me drilling holes for sensors.
 
Worst endeavor one day was the sliding glass door (well he said he paid more than $2000 for it) and me saying I could hide the sensors. (thinking it was more than 2k but less than 10k).
 
It was his home and his investment so I quit raising his blood pressure. (age and stress thing I suppose). 
 
I mean I have known him for 30 years and didn't want him to expire in front of me over some low voltage wires.
 
The wings on a 1275 fold around the contact and provide a spring effect to hold in the bored hole.The ribs help this. Pulling one out is no different than a normal contact, small tweaker screwdriver or putty knife to pull out.
 
As I said, if the holes are butchered, the best option IMHO is to get prewire plugs as they have a larger lip on them because they're supposed to be removed after the fact, and pop them in the holes with some silicone and redrill the windows slowly and carefully.
 
Again, I WOULD NOT put a 3/4" hole in the window....you're asking for leakage problems. Look at your sill in your picture, there's a second layer where the water is supposed to weep out of.
 
My biggest problem is that the window sill is hollow and there is only about 1/8" thick thickness holding the switch in place. What do you guys think about blowing a little foam insulation in the hole and then drilling it again? This would make the hole the length of the switch and give plenty of supportl
 
Mike.
 
Not following the need....you were saying the hole was oversized and the switch was sloppy and now the hole is appropriately sized but the window isn't providing a tight enough fit? Are these some sort of replacement window and not new openings?
 
Expanding foam would need to be the minimal expanding type otherwise you're going to introduce a whole host of other issues with the window. Also, would need to barely be a small squirt otherwise you're going to fill the opening solid underneath the window.
 
I'd look at the winged or ribbed contacts to fix the fit issue and chalk the overdrilling as an error and move on.
 
DELInstallations said:
Not following the need....you were saying the hole was oversized and the switch was sloppy and now the hole is appropriately sized but the window isn't providing a tight enough fit? Are these some sort of replacement window and not new openings?
Click to expand...
The hole is only a little oversize but the wall thickness or depth of the drilled hole is only about 1/16" and there is a hollow behind the opening. If I was drilling into a solid wood surround there would be no problem because I could just wrap the switch with a little teflon tape or use a little sealer but there is no depth to the hole except for a 1/16 veneer of vinyl.
 
DELInstallations said:
Expanding foam would need to be the minimal expanding type otherwise you're going to introduce a whole host of other issues with the window. Also, would need to barely be a small squirt otherwise you're going to fill the opening solid underneath the window.
 
I'd look at the winged or ribbed contacts to fix the fit issue and chalk the overdrilling as an error and move on.
Click to expand...
The problem that I foresee with the winged sensor is that the wings will expand in the hollow behind the veneer and I'll never get them out again without a lot of damage to the sill.
 
 
Mike.
 
Not with how they come together and fit and/or the GRI ribbed ones are similar. The wings don't pop out once they are put into the hole like an old work box, they allow more give than a solid contact and in actuality, they're easier to remove. The contact is going to sit proud of the sill, so it's not really going to be an issue.
 
Where in the state are you? Like I said, I'm pretty sure I have the remnants of a couple of bags that I'm never going to use.
 
DELInstallations said:
Not with how they come together and fit and/or the GRI ribbed ones are similar. The wings don't pop out once they are put into the hole like an old work box, they allow more give than a solid contact and in actuality, they're easier to remove. The contact is going to sit proud of the sill, so it's not really going to be an issue.
 
Where in the state are you? Like I said, I'm pretty sure I have the remnants of a couple of bags that I'm never going to use.
Click to expand...
I'd be willing to pay you what they're worth but I would rather not put my home addresss online. I googled your user name and found that you are not far from me in Beacon Falls. Do you have a public email address that I can use to send you my home address?
 
Mike.
 
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