New Firmware 3.10A old comm/time problems back

[pete_c]

While its all off rechecking my cabling from the HVAC unit to the thermostat.  This is all set up from the older RC80 days.
 
1 - I have an Omnistat 29A001 relay isolation module in place with its own Elk 24VAC PS.
2 - I have the R, G, Y and W wires hooked up for power, Fan relay, Cool Relay and Heat relay set up.
3 - The common wire is there and not connected from the thermostat to the relay isolation module.
 
I'm wondering if hooking up the common wire would be beneficial or not to my concerns?
 
Having the relay isolation module I do not think I have power issues nor have I seen the Omnistat2 ever reset itself since installation of said module.
 
The RC-80 manual "*" relating to the common wire states:
 
"common wire is requried to use the display baclight in the RC-80B.  Also use if heat, coolr or fan relay cannot supply 15mA to power thermostat, without activating"
 
The Omnistat2 manual states the same relating to the common wire.

 

[ano]

If you have the extra wire, hooking up the common can't hurt, but if you don't have a wire, and its not resetting, I wouldn't worry about it. 
 
I have four Omnistat2's, one is wired, two are Zigbee, and one other one is actually wired with Zigbee is turned on as well.  I haven't had any problems with such an arrangement.  The Zigbee ones are a slightly slower to respond, but not by much.
 
Each thermostat has cool and heat settings for NIGHT, VACATION, and DAY/OFF/AWAY.  The DAY/OFF/AWAY is further broken down into high rates, low rates, room occupied, and room unoccupied.  This thermostat control alone probably uses 250+ HAI lines of code. 
 
If all this works for me, your setup shouldn't be a problem.

 

[pete_c]

Thank-you Ano.
 
Very simple Omnistat2 set up here.
 
Due to WAF there is no HAI OPII programming/nor thermostat programming of the Omnistat2 today. IE: 68 degrees in the summer is not cold enough; so I see a 3AM manual turn down and the ceiling FAN being turned on such that I wake up to like a 62 degree bedroom.  Thus the Omnitouch screens just offer local control of the thermostat in the other part of the house. (which is not zoned).
 
I did just hook up the common wire from the Omnistat2 to the relay isolation module common. 
 
Turned it on and will watch comm, time and network. 

 

[pete_c]

Its been over an hour now and I see no comm issues, timing sync issues nor network stuff so far; but too early to tell.

 

[pete_c]

Some 12 hours later (after reconnecting Omnistat2) I started to see the comm to serially connected thermostat issues (zero ambient thermostat temperature), timing issue and networking issue. 
 
I know that the comm and time issues will go away just disconnecting the network interface or removing the Omnistat2 from the panel.
 
I did upgrade to most current firmware again early on yesterday and did have the thermostat disconnected for most of the day.
 
I am frustrated. 
 
I do still think it has to do with the serial comm to the just the thermostat causing the issue; but this is a guess because the issues did crop up with the introduction of the Omnistat2 to my OPII panel.   
 
Best guess that it's related to the firmware having both zigbee and legacy comm built in (even though its not talking ZIgbee and I do not have a Zigbee device connected to my panel). 
 
Really though I shouldn't have to downgrade firmware (eliminating the Zigbee pieces).
 
I really don't want to think or say that this is a hardware issue with the OPII panel yet. 
 
It really only will take a few minutes to replace the Omnitstat2 with the RC80 today which I test today.

 

[pete_c]

Goofing a bit this morning I "bricked" the HAI OPII panel.  I was writing the FW using the network.  That said it quit about half way.
 
It seemed though to partially work. No network at all.  The legacy omnitouch / keyboards though were showing some odd stuff.
 
I went to utilizing PCA via the serial link and was able to update the firmware and reboot the OPII.  All is well.
 
I've never utilized PCA via a serial link before though and did panic for a bit.

 

[ano]

Pete, if it always works with the OmniStat2 disconnected, why don't you think that is the problem?
 
In terms of panel firmware, I'm not positive, but the panel appears to have some failsafe functions.  When you update the firmware in the panel, to me it appears to have TWO copies of the firmware, the current firmware and the one you are updating.  After the update is complete, it switches from the old copy to the new copy.  If the update fails, I'm assuming there is a way to get back to the old copy. 
 
When you updated, the new copy got screwed up, but the old copy was still intact. How you switch back and forth between the two I do not know, but HAI could probably tell you.  In any case it sounds like you got it going again anyway. 

 

[pete_c]

if it always works with the OmniStat2 disconnected, why don't you think that is the problem?

 
Thank-you Ano.  I did not know the OPII kept two versions of the FW in the flash.
 
I do think that is an issue.  No issues cropped up yesterday relating to time sync and network (until I went to update the firmware today).  The only comm issue that I noticed previously was that the ambient temperature would remain at zero on the Omnitouch screens.  I mean I called it a comm issue but maybe it wasn't or is a comm issue.
 
Early this morning I reconnected the RC-80.  I see the ambient temperature from the thermostat just fine on the Omnitouch screens.
 
That said I also went to update the FW back to current level of FW.
 
Doing that and while updating the software quit talking to the panel and froze in the middle of the update.  This was maybe due though that there is still a network issue?
 
It wiped the network configuration and other stuff.  Rather than manually putting in the keys and IP I tried and was able to connect to the HAI OPII panel via the serial connection; rewrite the firmware and config and all was well.
 
The odd piece though of the network disconnecting during an update was very strange.  This has happened now twice in the last month and while I have been having this network issue. 
 
Now thinking of resetting the eprom and every else on the panel from scratch. 
 
Even though its working now I think there is some wierd FW stuff going on.  Maybe something is corrupted?

 

[ano]

The safest bet is erase the eeprom and the ram, then just upload everything from PC Access.
 
The reason I know that the panel has two copies of the firmware is because while you are uploading the firmware, the panel functions perfectly.  How could it do that otherwise?  I might be wrong, but it is pretty common to have two copies of FW, and once you have updated one, it switches over to it.  The panel DOES seem to stop communications with CQC when I update FW.  That is just probably a safety feature so the panel is not overloaded when its updating. 

 

[pete_c]

Problem returned again last night (network, comm and time sync).  Removed network connection late last night and all is well this morning.
 
Next morning.
 
Appears that network switch was partially working with something maybe beaconing.  My HD Silicon tuner was off line too and that is what made me look at the switch.  Reset switch and all was fine.  I also just moved the HAI network connection to a new Gb switch.  That said so far it appears to have no issues.  I have left the RC-80 in place for the time being.  Yesterday I did notice for a bit that an intiall network connection seemed to take a very long time. 
 
Leaving Snaplink on touchscreen in office to watch comm of thermostat and network for the time being.
 
Current setup is:
 
FW 3.11C and utilizing most current PCA software
 
I am optimistic this time(?) that all along it may have been some wierd beaconing on the switch making it disfunctional.

 

[pete_c]

Not patient enough leaving the RC80 in place monitoring via the network and not seeing any issues; I switched the RC-80 late last night to the Omnitstat2.
 
Mistake.
 
This morning the time was off by an hour, comm issues came back via the zero ambient temperature thing on the Omnitouch 5.7's and network connectivity was less than optimal (kept seeing disconnects on the Snaplink along with the zero ambient temperature thing).
 
This morning I disconnected the network port from the HAI OPII.  Within 1 minute the ambient temperature was reading correctly. 

 

[ano]

Pete, do you realize this thread is a 100+ posts of:  "Nope, didn't work again, removed the network cable and it works ....."
 
You need a new OmniStat 2.  If that doesn't fix it, you need a new Omni Pro II board.  If that doesn't fix it, I'd sell your house and start again. :blush:

 

[pete_c]

Yup; the Omnistat2 was #3 replaced after I kept seeing the issue.  Looks like the RC-80 works and want to check once more with it. 
 
The board is maybe now about 3 years old now as it replaced the legacy OPII board installed a while ago.
 
Not played with it in the last couple of days thinking the problem will go away by itself as it has in the past.

 

[ano]

Do you only have one Omnistat2?

 

[pete_c]

Yes.
 
Funny in a way that I left it on my HA "do what" shelf for almost two years before I decided to install it. 
 
Not sure now if it was one of the first ones that was sold.
 
The comm error (zero ambient temperatures) showed up immediately upon installation.  A call to HAI tech confirmed that it was an issue and said replaced Omnistat2 within a week.  This was also doing diagnostics; voltage checking et al.  Omnistat2 did the same after a day or so.  Then Omnitstat2 was fine until I posted here about issues. 
 
You (thread) got me disconnecting it today as now I can swap thermostats (RC-80) in 5 minutes.  I actually never left it disconnected for any real length of time;  nor have not had a thermostat plugged into the HAI OPII since installation a few years back.
 
This is what I did this morning  
 
7th May, 2013 - 0730C:
 
1 - removed the three comm wires from Omnistat2 to OPII at Omnistat2 side.
1 - changed configuration with PCA and removed thermostat configuration
2 - reset RAM
3 - connected to OPII via PCA
4 - uploaded configuration without thermostat
5 - reset ram
6 - downgraded FW to B version
7 - reset ram
8 - disconnected serial to Homeseer
9 - reuploaded configuration with out thermostat to OPII
10 - reset ram
11 - one IP connection left on to OPII - watching it - not leaving IP connection on but rather spot checking for disconnecting network and time sync stuff.
 
.....writing while doing this.....
 
7th May, 2013- 1425C...
 
Networks connectivity is fine; no disconnects using Snap Link.  Connected 1 Omnitouch 5.7e.   Time is in sync.
 
Started up Snap Link on little home office desktop; watching time and network.
 
7th May, 2013- 1845C...
 
Time in sync and network connectivity is fine.
 
8th May, 2013 - 0900c
 
Time off by about 60 minutes.  IP comm still good but seeing drop outs. (rules out Omnistat2 problem?)
 
Moved the network connection over to the main Gb switch via a long patch cable.
 
Reset RAM, sync'd clock again.
 
8th May, 2013 - 1335c
 
Time in sync and network connectivity is fine (watching with snaplink on little tablet).
 
8th May, 2013 - 1500c
 
Reconnected Omnistat2 serial link.  Uploaded configuration with thermostat.  Reset Ram. (trying this all with FW 10B.)
 
8th May, 2013 - 1644c
 
Time is fine, comm (Omnistat2) is fine along with the network right now.  Running PCA via serial link looking at status, HAI Snaplink via IP on another machine and watching all connected (IP and serial) Omnitouch screens.
 
8th May, 2013 - 2012c
 
Time is fine.  I saw a zero reading for the thermostat for about a 30 seconds or so on Snaplink.  Omnitouch and PCA look when looking at the thermostat.  Network if fine.