Newbie Designing a home and need HA help. - LONG

[gadg8man]

I am not even a newbie really, I have been lurking here for several weeks, reading, researching and trying to get a handle on the complexities of home automation, but I am still having difficulties wrapping my head around it.
First of all, I am not new to electrical, electronics or computer technology. I studied Electrical Engineering Technology over 20 years ago, and was an Electricians apprentice and I also installed car stereos for many years, however, it seems like I can't get a handle on the Home automation game or I am missing something.
I am designing our new home, it is 4600 square feet and I am selecting all of the systems, windows, shingles, etc for the architect and all specifications are going to be written including all of the specific products to be used. I am the general contractor as well.
What I would like to do is select the system that best meets my needs and I would like some help from the group.

What I want is the following;
- Lighting Scene control for certain rooms and landscape lighting
- occupancy sensor lighting control in other rooms
- Automate blinds based on lighting scene.
- Monitored Alarm system with fire/smoke/co2 detection.
- electronic door locks
- automated irrigation system (2 nights a week)
- driveway sensor to announce visitors - phone/ intercom announcement
- doorbell intercom or phone rings
- Exterior camera system with motion detection, turns on exterior lights when alarm is set.
- Audio will be handled using dedicated separate Amplifiers in each zone fed by Apple TV's/ Apple Express using airplay. That seems like the best solution for our lifestyle.
- iphone/ipad control of all systems


In my search I have noticed that the ELK M1 is a very popular unit and seems to be very flexible. I am not sure where to go from there, Insteon?, or some other technology? I will be doing the install myself, with the electrician, however, I have yet to find a comprehensive guide to choosing from all of the different technologies.
As far as lighting control goes, I would like to keep it very simple (or a divorce will be imminant).

As I am starting from scratch I would prefer to stick with a wired solution rather than a product designed for retrofit.

Any and all comment, suggestions and information sources would be appreciated.

Sorry for the long post.


Chris

 

[Steve]

Welcome to CocoonTech!

Since you are the GC and have full control you are sitting in the best position financially and for flexibility. The very first thing you need to do is start planning the wiring which you need to do while the house is being built. This will be your backbone. And remember, this is your opportunity, and wire is cheap (relatively, at this point in the build) so always do more and don't leave doubt or what ifs. I would start with looking over the CocoonTech Wiring Guide. There are 3 parts (101,102 and 103) along with several related spreadsheets in the Downloads area. That should get you started and busy for a while...

I'll just touch on these others very briefly for now but its all doable...

- Lighting Scene control for certain rooms and landscape lighting
Any lighting technology will include some sort of scene control. Your main choices are Powerline (UPB, Insteon (don't even consider x10), Wireless (Zigbee, ZWave or RF as in Lutron Radio Ra2) and Wired (centrally wired as in Centralite or traditional wiring with control wire as in ALC). While Powerline is very popular I personally have had tons of issues with noise, etc. If you are ok with somewhat limited device selection, etc and just want most reliable look at ALC, otherwise consider a good wireless mesh. You have time to choose this later. Just make sure you have a neutral in EVERY switch box, use deep boxes and maybe run a cat5 to each switch if considering ALC (doesn't hurt to have wire there anyway)

- occupancy sensor lighting control in other rooms
Use motion or occupancy sensors via your automation panel

- Automate blinds based on lighting scene
Need to choose blinds - 120V vs low voltage and wire appropriately. Several choices. Automation/control easy via panel/rules.

- Monitored Alarm system with fire/smoke/co2 detection.
All basic with panel choice - HAI OmniPro II or Elk M1G

- electronic door locks
Choice of ZWave or Zigbee

- automated irrigation system (2 nights a week)
Can do with relays or consider Rain8 PRO by WGL Designs

- driveway sensor to announce visitors - phone/ intercom announcement
Several choices here

- Exterior camera system with motion detection, turns on exterior lights when alarm is set.
Doable with right choices of cameras and DVR/software

- iphone/ipad control of all systems
Look at eKeypad for Elk or Haiku for HAI

Most of these are pretty basic/common things doable with any central panel. Concentrate on wiring for all of this and your choice of controller for now. And the best advice I can give is READ READ READ. All of this stuff has been covered here on CT with others blazing the trail before you. Search around and you will find gold. There is already a TON of info on controller, lighting, blinds, occupancy, etc.

 

[gadg8man]

Thanks for all of the input.
I have read the wiring Guide and I plan on following most of the suggestions there.
I guess my biggest question is what additional systems will I require besides the panel? Do I have to buy into one technology and stick with it? or can I add additional units and implement several systems all at once. i.e.: Insteon, zigbee, wave, etc?
I guess one problem I have is that I don't really understand how these systems ingrate together and therefore I am unclear as to how these systems are programmed.
If there is a Home Automation for idiots post I would gladly read it, however, I have been unable to locate anything of its kind.
I would really like to have a Home Automation DIY 101 course to take.

Thanks again.


Chris

 

[potts.mike]

The automation panel (elk/hai) &/or software on a pc ( homeseer, CQC, premise etc. ) will tie all the different tech together.

 

[Neurorad]

Most GCs sub out the LV work. Something to consider, for design.

If you have a few months, CT would be a good place to figure it all out, with forum Q & A, but it will take a lot of time.

If you don't have the time and energy, I suggest emailing/contacting Elk and HAI to find a local 'integrator' that will work with you, with design and/or installation.

The cabling will be nearly identical for HAI and Elk, but there are some decisions which need to be made pre-construction (e.g. lighting and shade technology).

 

[Steve]

As Mike said, the controller for the most part ties it all together. With HAI they have many of the subsystems and integration may be a little easier but for the most part people pick what they want for each subsystem. Depending on the system, some are programmed on their own and the controller simply controls it once programmed or in some cases the controller does the programming. For an example with UPB you can use UPStart and program the devices exclusively via that or you can use HAI/HLC and do your basic programming within the controller. Check out the HAI Webinars (especially the Designing a Home Automation System series) and see if that helps.

 

[Steve]

The cabling will be nearly identical for HAI and Elk, but there are some decisions which need to be made pre-construction (e.g. lighting and shade technology).

Deciding up front is great but I don't agree with this 100%. You want the flexibility to change your mind or even change down the road if what you though up front doesn't work out. Most of the time that just entails having the wiring and stuff to go either way. The only area I think is critical is if you want to do centralized lighting, that is the one thing that needs to be known up front since it entails an entirely different electrical wiring system.

But besides that I would cover all bases for example...

Lighting - Use deep, non metal boxes and run a Cat5 to the box. This will allow you to use pretty much any lighting system - UPB, ZWave, Zigbee, ALC, etc.
Shades - Have 120V there plus have enough wire for LV power and control. That way you can use almost any shade system and controller. If you wanted stuff like roller shades completely built into the header then that of course would require special construction.

 

[gadg8man]

I really appreciate all of the replies, a few side notes;
1. I have 19 months to plan things so time is on my side.
2. I do not want to go with centralized lighting control if I can help it, My lighting requirements are small and scene controllers and dimmers should do the trick, rather than the increased expense of a dedicated lighting controller and the additional wiring just doesn't seem worth the additional cost for 4 scenes in a few rooms.
3. Here in Canada we cannot use non metallic boxes, also, we cannot share low voltage and line voltage wiring in the same enclosure. Violates National Electric Code.
4. Definitely going to check out the HAI webinars, thanks.

Based on my lighting scene control requirements (Family room, Kitchen, Dining Room, Master, Ensuite, Theatre, and Bar) 4 scenes for each room, any suggestions on a sub system that would best meet my needs? again, I really only need a 4 scene controller in each room. and maybe a couple of independent switches as over rides.

Thanks again, learning a lot and I have more reading to do tonight.

Chris

 

[Steve]

I'm going to go out on a limb and bet your requirements change after a few months in the house. Once you get a taste for automated lighting you will want to keep adding more and more. Stuff like - all lights come on and/or flash when alarm goes off, exterior lights on/off based on time, interior lights based on time and/or motion, lights on/off based on contacts (like front door opens and dark outside then entry chandelier comes one), entire garage lights on when garage door is opened, holiday light control, etc. The sky is the limit and I bet you will want more than just a few scenes. But it doesn't matter, that's the nice thing about retrofit lighting is you can start small and add as you want (but you may save some $ up front if you pass on the standard switches and outlets and put in the automated ones up front.

So the suggestion is the same, you can use any of the techs mentioned earlier. There may be some issues with certain wireless products and metal boxes (rare but possible) and you may have to do some special wiring if using ALC (keep the low voltage outside of the box) but they are all still valid choices. Some of the lighting choice may come down simply to what style switches are available - soft click/firm click, LED or LED color, etc.

 

[drvnbysound]

But you should be able to use these, right?

http://www.homedepot...n&storeId=10051

Or, these: http://www.homedepot...n&storeId=10051

I just used one of the latter recently behind my living room TV, where I have a dual gang box. In one gang I have the power wiring for the TV, in the other gang I have one of the brushed plates allowing my HDMI cable to pass through, with the divider separating the box.

 

[drvnbysound]

I was in Home Depot yesterday buying some electrical items to add another circuit in my home; adding a new circuit to my utility room specifically for HA needs . I was near these, and decided to snap a quick picture to share:

 

[rwarshawski]

I have 2 systems here in Alberta. They are hybrid UPB basedELK/HAL/Cinemar systems. V5 of HAL just came out and it has a marvelous interface with the iPhone. HAL probably has the best voice recog of all of the various products. Also supports RFID. I usethe HAL side quite a bit for scheduled tasks and messaging. It has saved the house a few times by letting me know the temp has fallen below a certain value. I can sign in or telephone in remotely to reest the boiler for instance. I use the Cinemar on touch screen tablet PC's and iPads, with a floor plan of the house as the basic input screen. Their Music and DVD controllers are really slick too. ELK is primarily for security but I am working towards a tighter integration with the HAL/Cinemar side. Right now I use the motion sensors to trigger events in HAL such as lights or send an email if one goes off in a certain area, etc. Russound is fully integrated and works extremely well for music.
Wiring is an issue insofar as you only need one switch in an area to control multiple lights- the rest are homerun to the mech room where the switch for a particular light lives.The local switch controls one load, with other buttons/toggles on it sending UPB commands to the switch in the basement. You have to decide which load will be local and which will wind up being home run. Not a huge issue but your electrician has to have an open mind. I used deeper boxes than standard (metal as Alberta is still in Canada!).

If you are anywhere near stop by and I can show you.

bob

 

[sbwright]

Not sure where u guys are located in canada, here in Ontario they sell and we use plastic/vinyl boxes. The HV and LV in the same box is an issue, although there is debate that as long as the insulation rating on the LV wiring is equal to the HV it should pass. I will be having that discussion with our inspector as we were looking at potentially using ALC devices in the new home were about to build.

 

[rwarshawski]

We are in Alberta. The place was built a few years ago. Maybe it was the electricians preference rather than a code thing but all my boxes are metal.
What are ALC devices and how would you use them?

bob

 

[sbwright]

ALC devices, can be found at setnetpro.com