Omni LTe Automation Erratic or Non-Existent

[southpeoria]

I have not purchased one yet. The whole Home Noise Block to which you linked says it filters both noise from outside the home and also filters appliances etc inside the home.
 
I was thinking more of filtering one or two circuits (breakers) and the loads would not be more than 15 amp. I thought I had read somewhere that the noise filters sometimes block/weaken X-10 signals depending where the filters are installed.

 

[ano]

You should understand "noise" filters before you start throwing them everywhere. X-10 is NOISE on the powerline. Powerlines are designed to carry 60 hz (50 hz in Europe) power to power your devices. X-10 adds a 120 kHz carrier signal to your powerline, so it is NOISE as powerlines were never designed to carry 120kHz.  An X-10 "filter" is designed to remove or block high-frequency noise that might interfere with the 120 kHz "signal" we call "X-10."   So yes, an X-10 filter will filter X-10 and the noise that bothers X-10.  So, an X-10 filter is designed to block high-freq. noise between a noise causing device and X-10.  For example, lets say you have a pool pump motor that causes "X-10 noise."  You would plug the pool filter into the X-10 noise filter, and it would isolate the noise to the motor side.  X-10 noise filters are really "low-pass" filters. They pass 60 hz and they block frequencies that are high, ie. 120kHz.  Easy peasy.  So you can't put an X-10 transmitter on one side of a "X-10 filter" and expect the signal to get to the other side. It won't. Now you understand how "X-10 filters" work. A whole-house X-10 filter prevents noise from outside your house getting inside your house, but it won't filter that pool motor noise because that is generated INSIDE your house. 

 

[southpeoria]

Taking the laptop and connected CIM around to various outlets, I was getting readings on the "noise meters" of "0", and the text said signal strength is 'excellent' and noise level is 'none'. At that point, UpStart would control all 3 light sets normally, but LTe would only control 2 of them reliably, and the one that was unreliable had the highest signal strength (Beachside Porch, Unit 28)
 
I began to question further whether the problem was noise or something else when I tested entering commands directly from the console, and found that sending link commands from the console controlled all 3 sets of UPB lights normally. But sending via PC Access still was erratic.
 
But then I came to an embarrassing realization. I had originally set up an Omni II board and when it failed a few years ago, I replaced it with an LTe.  I did not, however, download a manual for the LTe and left everything set up like it was on the Omni II and just put the UPB switches in the "B" house code (Units 26, 27, 28) along with X-10 switches. Both A and B house codes were set to "Extended".
 
As I read the LTe manual last evening, I was chagrined to find the statement that X-10 and UPB can coexist on the LTe system, but only if they are on separate house codes. So today, I changed the house code format for the "B" bank (Units 17-32) from Extended to UPB.
 
I am waiting for the program to run tonight and see if the control is any better. But I am puzzled that if I look at the console and select to "Show" programs, the only UPB command that shows up is #16...no sign of the commands for the links to the 3 sets of lights...
 
1.    WHEN AC POWER OFF
            THEN HOURS AC OFF ON FOR 3 HOURS
2.    WHEN HOURS AC OFF OFF
        AND IF AC POWER OFF
            THEN AC OFF ALARM ON FOR 2 SECONDS
3.    TIMED 15 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN UPB Outside Front Porch ON
            THEN UPB Outside Garage Lights ON
            THEN UPB Outside Beachside Porch ON
4.    TIMED 10 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Entry Hall Sconces TO 20%
5.    TIMED 10 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Kitchen Island Light TO 40%
6.    TIMED 10 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
        AND IF DAYLIGHT SAVING LIGHT FLAG IS INACTIVE
            THEN Great Room Sconces BRIGHT 3
7.    TIMED 15 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
        AND IF DAYLIGHT SAVING LIGHT FLAG IS ACTIVE
            THEN Great Room Sconces BRIGHT 3
8.    TIMED 22:00 MTWTFSS
            THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Kitchen Island Light TO 20%
9.    TIMED 22:00 MTWTFSS
            THEN Entry Hall Sconces OFF
10.    TIMED 22:45 MTWTFSS
            THEN Kitchen Island Light OFF
11.    TIMED 23:00 MTWTFSS
            THEN Great Room Sconces OFF
12.    TIMED 15 MINUTES BEFORE SUNRISE MTWTFSS
            THEN UPB Outside Beachside Porch OFF
            THEN UPB Outside Front Porch OFF
            THEN UPB Outside Garage Lights OFF
13.    WHEN ALL ON
            THEN ALL UNITS ON
14.    WHEN ALL ON
            THEN UPB All Outside Lights ON
15.    WHEN ALL OFF
            THEN ALL UNITS OFF
16.    WHEN ALL OFF
            THEN UPB All Outside Lights OFF
 
There is likely a simple explanation, and maybe you will be able to see it right away. I appreciate your patience with someone who must seem hopelessly challenged. :mellow:

 

 

[pete_c]

Good news @South_Peoria_PM
 
You can test your X10 and UPB stuff manually via the status page on PCA. 

 

 

[southpeoria]

A little further information, Pete. From where I sit at the PC, I can see the "Beach Light". If I go up to the console and control it "On", sometimes when I come back to view it, it is indeed "on", but other times it is "off" even though the console Status shows it "on" and PCA Status says it is "on".  So it seems that the commands are being issued correctly, but sometimes the switch itself is not acting on the commands. Since testing showed that the signal strength is good and that there is no noise, maybe the switch itself has become defective? Have you seen that before? This is a Simply Automated switch...is there a better, more-reliable UPB alternative? Does it sound to you as if it's time to replace that switch? Thanks...

 

[pete_c]

You can first to reset the UPB switch for the "Beach Light" and use Upstart to reprogram it and Upstart to test connecting Upstart to the same said UPB PIM that you are using for the OmniPro panel.  Here over the years switched over to all SA switches. 
 
1 - First check out the manual operation of the switch physically turning it on or off.
2 - Using Upstart do the same manually turning on and off the switch
3 - Check the programming on the switch with Upstart.  Here utilize single taps for slow to dim levels and double taps for an instant on.
4 - If the switch works manually and via Upstart then it is good.
5 - If it doesn't work manually and via Upstart then reset the switch and reprogram it.
 
Here is a user guide to programming the switch.
 
SA in wall switch.

 

[southpeoria]

In getting rid of the "B" labelled X-10 switches #17-32 (since I have now given those unit numbers the house control code "UPB"), do I have to replace them with non-X-10 dimmers, or can I simply set the house code to something other than "A" or "B". In other words, will an X-10 switch, set to a house code that the controller is not using (in my case anything other than "A" or "B") mess up the operation of the controller, or will it just function as a normal non-X-10 switch? Thanks

 

[pete_c]

do I have to replace them with non-X-10 dimmers, or can I simply set the house code to something other than "A" or "B". In other words, will an X-10 switch, set to a house code that the controller is not using (in my case anything other than "A" or "B") mess up the operation of the controller, or will it just function as a normal non-X-10 switch?
 
Leave the X10 house code as it was as it is set right now for your X10 switches.  It will not mess with the operation of the controller.
The names you have in your programming lines match what you have defined in your Units.
 
 
For a set of 16 UPB device "slots" you can have one or up to 16.  They just have to be UPB.  You cannot mix X10 and UPB in the same "slot" of 16 units.
 
UPB wall switches can be set to be dimmable or just an on off switch via Upstart.
 
IE: here first UPB switches here are outdoor lamp switches.  
 
017 (BR1-17) Garage Coach / U17 Garage Coach Lamps / UPB Yes Yes
 
Above I label description with unit number.  Note in this slot you can only use UPB so that:
 
018 ==> U18 UPB Unit number....Unit number 31....031 ==> U31 UPB Unit number.
 
It sounds a bit confusing but it is not.  All of the unit numbering on the Omni Panel is configured in an X10 fashion as X10 was the first protocol used on the very first Omni panels.  IE: groups of 16.
 
Note the panel does not program the UPB or X10 switches.  You program the switches to match the OmniPro unit configuration.
 
Thinking you mentioned that you have 3 in wall UPB switches so you would configure only 018, 019 and 020 leaving the rest of the units at default.
 
When you look at the status you will only see what you have set in the panel.  IE: for UPB you will only see three units.

 

[southpeoria]

"Thinking you mentioned that you have 3 in wall UPB switches so you would configure only 018, 019 and 020 leaving the rest of the units at default"
 
Did you mean 017, 018 and 019, since U1-U16 are X-10 and U017 begins the "block" of UPB?

 

[pete_c]

Did you mean 017, 018 and 019, since U1-U16 are X-10 and U017 begins the "block" of UPB?
 
Yes.

 

[southpeoria]

Posted my updated Unit list to Gallery.
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:1396]
 
Tested all 3 UPB units. Could control normally this afternoon with 1) Local (rocker), 2) UpStart, 3) Console and 4) PC Access sending commands to <Control><Unit><Level 60%><On> and the <Off> to each unit, as well as <UPB Link><Unit Name><Link><On>, and then <Link><Off> to each unit. Everything working just fine. Thought I had solved the problem. Waited to watch the automation programs run this evening around sunset:
 
3.    TIMED 15 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN UPB Outside Front Porch ON
4.    TIMED 16 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN UPB Outside Garage Lights ON
5.    TIMED 17 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN UPB Outside Beachside Porch ON
6.    TIMED 10 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Hall Lights - Entry/Up/Down TO 20%
7.    TIMED 10 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
            THEN SET LIGHTING LEVEL Kitchen Island Light TO 40%
8.    TIMED 10 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
        AND IF DAYLIGHT SAVING LIGHT FLAG IS INACTIVE
            THEN Great Room Sconces BRIGHT 3
9.    TIMED 15 MINUTES AFTER SUNSET MTWTFSS
        AND IF DAYLIGHT SAVING LIGHT FLAG IS ACTIVE
            THEN Great Room Sconces BRIGHT 3

Watched upstairs as all lights (including UPB FRONT PORCH and UPB GARAGE) came on at appropriate levels and at the correct times, and was ready to declare victory, until I went downstairs (beachside) and the @^$*&$% UPB BEACHSIDE PORCH LIGHTS WERE NOT ON!!!! What????
 
Re-checked configuration of the 3 UPB units...all have correct id#'s, scenes are correct, receive components are correct.  Only difference is units 17-18 show "Phase O" and 19 (erratic Beachside Lights) show "Phase S". Not sure the designations "S" and "O" for phases, but have Leviton HCA02 System Coupler operating normally, so phases should be coupled, correct? Have Leviton PIM 36A00-1...could that have a bug or need replacing?  Serial cable from PIM is plugged in to board at Serial 3...maybe code a different port as UPB and plug in there?  At this point really frustrated.  Also, would point out that I have called Simply-Automated at least 4 times and sent several emails...NO RESPONSE.

 

[pete_c]

Guessing "S" is same and "O" is opposite phase.  But it the PIM should work better on the same phase as the UPB device?
 
From the Upstart Manual
 
Communication Phase
The Communications Test results also display the relative Phase (Same or Opposite) between the Device and the CIM.
 
The Leviton HCA02 is a 2 phase X10 coupler repeater.
 
Have Leviton PIM 36A00-1...could that have a bug or need replacing
 
No.
 
Get a UPB phase coupler ==>
 
There is a used one on Ebay for $25 with $12 shipping.   Ebay # 283396972112
 

 

 

[southpeoria]

Should I add that to the system in addition to the HCA02 unit or will the UPB coupler replace it?

 

[southpeoria]

Since I have room in my main panel, could I use this instead of the unit you saw on EBay?
 
 
https://www.homecontrols.com/Simply-Automated-UPB-Inverting-Phase-Coupler-Circuit-Breaker-SAZPCIB

 

[pete_c]

Should I add that to the system in addition to the HCA02 unit or will the UPB coupler replace it?
 
Yes.  The HCA02 device is for your X10 stuff.
 
could I use this instead of the unit you saw on EBay?
 
Yes this will work.