Self Monitor Installation ADT A910KR

[DoItMyself]

Please ignore the post above, the sensors were damaged in some cases but the wiring appears okay for the most part.  I have gone over each sensor in the house (each wire) to test for continuity. Some window sensors had been cut or were missing so I will need to replace them. Someone in the past had used the smoke alarm wiring to connect a window sensor in the upstairs master bedroom which is interesting. The lines themselves appear in good condition. The only sensor that I had issues with was the sliding glass door sensor, pictures below. Is that a pressure sensor? Magnet? I tried applying pressure to see if that closed the circuit as well as using a magnet and neither produced a tone.
 
I have, no surprise, a couple of questions. First, if someone is using hubs like wink or nest or even a home automation controller, what advantage is there to using something like an Elk that integrates it all, would this mean someone would not use the wink or nest apps and would use the security app as an interface?
 
As we begin other renovations, cost is a bit of a concern, I am not sure how much tinkering I will do over the next couple of years and as Ral mentioned in another thread it might be good to get the 20P for now and who knows, maybe something newer and better is out there if I really start getting more into HA.  On that note I am wondering if the 20P would be enough for my uses. Should I look at the 21ip?
 
I am going to need to add wireless sensors. Both to windows, a door, glass breakers, and smoke alarms. Would this affect which panel is easier to install and connect? Also I would like to use one of the less expensive monitoring services while also receiving remote alerts (and depending on complexity, is remote access/arming possible?) How would the Vista 20P be for these requirements? 
 
Thanks so much for your help.
 
 
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[tmbrown97]

That looks like a traditional magnet-type sensor.  It's sticking out a lot though so there may have been gap/distance issues.  Personally I'd normally leave the sensor flush with the frame and do whatever is necessary to push the magnet closer.

 

[DoItMyself]

Thanks for the help. If I was going to test for continuity would a magnet at the sensor close the circuit and tone if the wires were still in good condition?

 

[RAL]

In theory, yes, a magnet should close the contact.  In practice, I've found that using any old magnet doesn't work. The strength of the magnet and the polarity matter.  What works best is using a magnet that is designed for use with the type of contact you have.

 

[DoItMyself]

Okay thanks Ral. I used a magnet that I had used to test a broken window sensor, it didn't tone, so I will mark that as inconclusive. We are going to be replacing the door so I can take a closer look in the coming months.

 

[Del91574]

I can't see pictures so I can't say what is or might be going on.
 
Magnet polarity doesn't truly matter, strength of the magnet and location in relation to the switch does (in a T orientation will not work properly). Using a generic fridge magnet or similar (flat card style) would generally not close a contact.

 

[pete_c]

Here I have used a supermagnet on the end of an extended or telescopic stalk. 
 
It is an automotive tool used when you drop bolts or whatever have you in to the abyss of the motor which I have done a few times.
 
Personally here did the neighbors OmniPro 2 conversion pro bono a few years back.   It was an old system from the 80's that had been installed.
 
There were many multiple device loops in the house.  I replaced almost 100% of the sensors and used a VOM at the sensors and at the panel wiring.  It became much faster  than checking them after a while except for the ones painted over et al.  There used a toner to locate the terminations of the sensors. 

 

[DoItMyself]

Ahhh, that probably would have saved me some time. Was pretty tedious and removed the EOLR on each line as I was toning. Then tracked each line and labeled with tape. The sliding glass door is my last sensor. I have two of these empire earth magnets that worked well on the broken window sensors (where the magnet sensor was no longer present). I assume this should be enough so perhaps its the sensor itself or the line?
 
In general, for ease of setup and moving forward quickly 20P appears to be a popular and reliable system. I am going to have to use wireless sensors in some areas, and as I start adding in wireless features should I consider an Elk system (since I read the cost begins to narrow)? I am also planning on getting the envisalink for email alerts as well as paying for a monitoring service (I assume doing both is possible).  Thanks a bunch everyone for all the help.

 

[pete_c]

Elk and HAI (Leviton) are very popular combination security and automation panels here on the forum.  Here have gone the OmniPro 2 route (which is probably more than I need).  I like the footprint of my OmniPro 2's. 
 
You can do much with the integration of security and automation. 
 
Relating to automation I like using the wired outputs and inputs.  Wireless is present if needed.
 
Lighting devices / PIMs are a mixture of X10, UPB, Z-Wave and Zigbee.
 
Sound (if you are interested in that) is a Zoned Russound, HVAC thermostats are OmniStat2 (which also has a wired remote temperature sensor connected to it), use temperature and temperature/humidity sensors, Touch screens are old OmniTouch 5.7's and Omnitouch 5.7e's
 
I do have wireless stuff plugged in one panel and not the other.  That said only have one wireless device plugged in and never use it.  Rest is hard wired to the panel.
 
One home the security wires were pre done by a subcontracted company by the GC.  No terminations were done.  Single runs were done for every zone.  Well sliding glass doors have multiple single runs of wire per door.  All of the wires were labeled but I did still check each one with a VOM anyways.  I did also here solder and heat shrink all of the EOLs (that too was a bit time consuming and a learning experience) The other home did it myself one wire at a time baby steps fashion.  It was time consuming but there was no real need for security at the time.
 
I integrate software automation with the panel.  I utilize Microsoft SAPI for the text to speech stuff like when the garage door is open.  Also utilize chimes after midnight for outside sensors type of stuff.

 

[Del91574]

The 20P is about 1/4 or less the cost of a similar M1G kit. The main variable is how many other things you truly end on interfacing with. I wouldn't go with a 21iP, which is essentially a 20P with a built in communicator and spot to land a cell card. Better off to go modular in that regard.
 
The only time a M1G starts to make sense is if the topology dictates or the expansion can support the cost, which only starts to come into play with a fully loaded 20P (with expanders and relays) and still a 20P will come in cheaper (except for the peripherals).

 

[DoItMyself]

I have a feeling the automation is in my future, it sounds like something I could definitely get more into than what we are currently. Pete your system sounds awesome and I like the text to speech you added, that's a great idea. 
 
Given we have a renovation starting and I would like to get the basic security system up and running as well as cameras and Blue Iris I think I am going to make an initial shopping list for the 20p and get that ordered in the next few days if not sooner. I will post the first order to get a general thumbs up or down.
 
As for the sliding glass door sensor, how do I go about removing that sensor so I can look at the wiring? It's just a hole drilled through for the sensor but how is it secured and removed?

 

[DoItMyself]

This list doesn't include a couple of the wireless window sensors and motion detectors but will get me started, any thoughts or opinions if I have forgotten anything would be greatly appreciated:
 
Vista 20P 8 zone Control Panel       58.25
 
6160RF                                              97.95
 
Envisalink 4                                       98.50
 
Wireless Receiver                              67.47
 
Battery                                              13.99
 
 
Sensors and Siren
 
Window Sensor                                 14.95
 
Patio Door Contact                            5.67
 
Smoke detector                                 57.10
 
Wireless siren                                    89.70

 

[RAL]

Since you are purchasing a 5881 wireless receiver, I'm not sure you really need a 6160RF keypad with a second receiver.  A 6160 could save you some money.

 

[DoItMyself]

I didn't realize it was one or the other that's good to know. It seems from reading some of Del's posts it is more preferred to use something like the 5881 so that it can be relocated if needed vs the RF keypad which if it doesn't connect you are a little stuck.
 
I spoke with alarmsystemstore.com today and on the phone the gentleman mentioned he didn't think you could register the panel with a monitoring service and also use the envisalink. Is this a one or nothing situation? Thanks.

 

[RAL]

I didn't realize it was one or the other that's good to know. It seems from reading some of Del's posts it is more preferred to use something like the 5881 so that it can be relocated if needed vs the RF keypad which if it doesn't connect you are a little stuck.
 
I spoke with alarmsystemstore.com today and on the phone the gentleman mentioned he didn't think you could register the panel with a monitoring service and also use the envisalink. Is this a one or nothing situation? Thanks.

 
DEL's point about using the 5881 receiver rather than a RF keypad is a good argument.  That will let you locate the receiver in an optimal location, while keypads limit your options.
 
If you are going to connect the 20P to a phone line for monitoring or to a cellular transmitter, I think you can use both that and the EnvisaLink.
 
Some discussion about using that sort of thing here:
 
http://forum.eyez-on.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3258&sid=deca1eb560574dab8be3e3d3fe3afe3d
 
http://forum.eyez-on.com/FORUM/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=757&p=3312&hilit=POTS&sid=645c42790d879da0997b8826af195984#p3312
 
If that proves to be problematic, another option is the EnvisAlarm service.  That gives you IP monitoring, which is not my preferred method vs POTS or cellular. But it's something.