I'll be listening for the answer as well.
Your idea with relays is interesting. If it's all right, I may reach out to you once I have my system up and running to understand this a bit better.
Advice in Designing new Elk System
- Thread starter rmf
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I'll be listening for the answer as well.
Your idea with relays is interesting. If it's all right, I may reach out to you once I have my system up and running to understand this a bit better.
prsmith777
Member
Yes the chime is on the keypads.
Im not positive but I think if you add optional speakers that they sell, you can have those also chime. If you want the voice announcements you have to add speakers to the keypads as well as wherever else you want. I added a few speakers around the house.
TBO, though the voice announcements are pretty crude and nowhere near as nice as say Alexa or equivalent. I use my HS plugin to trigger voice announcement over Sonos, so the chime and Elk voice annoucements are turned off.
The speakers are helpful for sirens/alarms.
I definitely would do ELK again. It is old but it integrates with HomeSeer so that makes it very useful around here. I had 2Gig at one point but no HS integration.
Also have a long driveway. I use Dakota alert product. I utilize their receiver's relays with Arduino plugin so that it is also integrated with HomeSeer and have Sonos announcements when cars come or go ( I added two sensors to determine car direction)
Sounds like we have similar setups.
NormandyHA
Member
I know you asked @psmith777, but I thought I'd provide some feedback as well. If the E27 Alarm Engine is now available, I'd go with that. Problem is "it's coming soon" has been the case for several years now.
E27 Alarm Engine - ELK Products
ELK’s E27 Alarm Engine® is a hybrid alarm control for intrusion & safety, supporting both hardwired & wireless sensors.
www.elkproducts.com
But if you look at it, much of the technology is the Elk M1 Gold with some changes. The E27 expansion modules look the same but have an updated data buss codec.
That said, I'd reached out to Elk Products technical support and was assured continued development would continue for the M1 Gold. I suspect that's because the RS-485 buss is almost identical, so new products for the E27 could be released with an M1 Gold edition for minimal product cost differences. In addition, the M1 Gold received a firmware update Firmware Version 5.3.18 (released 4/24/2023) just last April, so Elk Products development does continue to refine the M1 Gold. The only additional clarification is that the keypads, while identical working, will not function on the E27. Unless this decision changes, the panel cannot just be replaced for an upgrade.
But the M1G is a proven quantity and the HomeSeer and Home Assistant integrations work very well.
I'll certainly continue to recommend it.
Keep in mind that once you are integrated with Homeseer or HA, you can create events to play your own chime sounds whenever and wherever you want via HSTouch, home/pc speakers, Sonos, Chromecast - lots of options.
I will have to do some more investigation for these options. Haven't finished the whole home audio yet, I expect that will open up some additional options.
I know you asked @psmith777, but I thought I'd provide some feedback as well. If the E27 Alarm Engine is now available, I'd go with that. Problem is "it's coming soon" has been the case for several years now.
E27 Alarm Engine - ELK Products
ELK’s E27 Alarm Engine® is a hybrid alarm control for intrusion & safety, supporting both hardwired & wireless sensors.
But if you look at it, much of the technology is the Elk M1 Gold with some changes. The E27 expansion modules look the same but have an updated data buss codec.
That said, I'd reached out to Elk Products technical support and was assured continued development would continue for the M1 Gold. I suspect that's because the RS-485 buss is almost identical, so new products for the E27 could be released with an M1 Gold edition for minimal product cost differences. In addition, the M1 Gold received a firmware update Firmware Version 5.3.18 (released 4/24/2023) just last April, so Elk Products development does continue to refine the M1 Gold. The only additional clarification is that the keypads, while identical working, will not function on the E27. Unless this decision changes, the panel cannot just be replaced for an upgrade.
But the M1G is a proven quantity and the HomeSeer and Home Assistant integrations work very well.
I'll certainly continue to recommend it.
Thanks @NormandyHA. I read that page you linked to, I see all the "coming soon."
Do we have any idea what changes the E27 makes to the system? What will it do that the current system doesn't/can't?
Not sure if it'd be worth waiting (maybe if it's release in the next few months it WOULD be .... but if it's been vaporware for several years .... meh ...)
It is encouraging that they're still upgrading the M1G firmware, I agree. My goal in asking the question..... I just don't want to go to the trouble of installing a new system and have it be "obselete" in a year. I do know it's a bit different with alarm boards though ... this space seems to move very slow relative to HA/computer tech etc. FWIW, I don't think I ever upgraded the firmware on my DSC board over 8 years ....
Hey All -
A few other newb questions here as I'm starting to shop now .......
rmf
A few other newb questions here as I'm starting to shop now .......
- Do ALL the modules need to plug into the M1DBHR board? My current wiring is home runs from each of 3 keypads. I know each of them need to plug into this board. From what I read, the M1XEP connects to the main board via a serial to serial cable - so should not need to connect to the DBHR board. However, it seems the RF board DOES need to connect to the data bus and thus needs to connect to the DBHR which would mean I'm using 4 of 4 connections on the DBHR. Is that correct?
- Any recommendations on a battery? I assume I don't necessarily need the "elk" branded battery. Would any 12v and 7-10-12aH battery work for this application?
rmf
I have several expansion boards on my system, so my bus connects to a few other cards. But yes, your keypads may take up most of the outputs on the M1DBHR. But I doubled up (2 keypads on 1 output) because I needed an output for other boards, which seems to work as long you don't exceed the rated current draw. I believe the manual explains that, so you'll have to check the current draw from the RF board. And you are correct, the M1XEP does not connect to the DBHR - it connects to the panel via serial, needs an ethernet, and gets power from it's own wall wart (another reason I put the power outlet inside the box).
Regarding the battery, I went with 12 Ah because it was the largest I could fit at the bottom of the box, and I figured larger means more run time (I lose power here a lot). I actually have one battery in each box because I have a supplemental power supply in the second box. I am currently using the ELK branded batteries because 1) I got a good deal on them last time I purchased, and 2) I have tried several "no-names" and they just don't seem to last as long as the ELK battery. Keep in mind that you do have to replace the battery every few years - not cheap. The panel usually lets you know when the battery goes bad.
Regarding the battery, I went with 12 Ah because it was the largest I could fit at the bottom of the box, and I figured larger means more run time (I lose power here a lot). I actually have one battery in each box because I have a supplemental power supply in the second box. I am currently using the ELK branded batteries because 1) I got a good deal on them last time I purchased, and 2) I have tried several "no-names" and they just don't seem to last as long as the ELK battery. Keep in mind that you do have to replace the battery every few years - not cheap. The panel usually lets you know when the battery goes bad.
Thank you for the information and your thoughts.
Elk has put out only limited information about the E27, so it's difficult to tell how much of an improvement it will be.
Here's what I came away with:
1. Better integration of features on to the main board:
On-board ethernet. No more need for the M1XEP.
2. Support for WiFi. Not clear what its capabilities will be (e.g. control of WiFi devices such as AC switches and outlets for home automation, or is it just for communication to central stations, or external home automation systems?)
3. Support for 2-wire smoke detectors on 3 zone inputs vs 1 input on the M1.
4. Better rules engine using AND/OR/ELSE. Although you could achieve similar results with the M1 engine, it wasn't always straightforward.
5. Only 128 zones vs 208 on the M1.
I have been hoping for more advanced keypads that used video LCDs that allow integration with home security cameras, etc. Maybe also Alexa or Google Home. Haven't seen any sign of this.
Elk has been playing up the E27 for about 2 years now. It's hard to tell how close they are to really making it available. They have previously indicated that it will only be sold to alarm system dealers and not DIYers. If true, that's a big disappointment.
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All modules need to connect to the data bus, but not necessarily the DBHR. You can daisy chain the modules without getting the DBHR involved, really easy if they are somewhat local to the main board. The bus needs to be terminated at both ends. The DBHR is typically used in existing installations when you only have a 4-wire cable to the existing keypad and can't do an "out and back" of the Data lines.
Here's a graphic from the installation manual
Thanks for this. I have three home run keypads already. Rewriring them is not going to be a good option. So I think The DBHR is the way to go for me. My question was more so if I needed more than one DBHR, as I'm looking at three keypads plus the Ethernet module plus the RF module. But it sounds like I'll be good as the m1XEP connects directly to the mainboard via a serial cable.
I agree, some of those would be nice. The fact that it's already been two years though and the other concern that they are only going to sell to dealers makes me think it's not worth waiting.
Having direct connection to security cameras would be awesome though.
I feel like there is so much untapped potential to tie these systems into much of the other home automation landscape.....
The M1DBHR creates 4 independent data busses. Like the main M1 data bus, each M1DBHR data bus can have 2 branches. So a single M1DBHR will give you the ability to attach up to 8 home run cabled devices (wired with 4 conductor cables) to the M1DBHR. Plus, you still have the ability to attach other devices to the second branch of the main M1 bus.
Also, assuming some of your other M1 devices are local to the M1 itself, or cabled with Catx cable, you can attach one or more of them to a M1DBHR branch as the first device(s) and then daisy chain them to a 4 conductor keypad cable as the last device of the branch.
Here's an example...
[edit: oops... somehow the picture failed to embed]
To confuse things even further, you could wire up the 3 devices in the example above without even using a M1DBHR. You just have to wire the keypad as the last device in the chain since it only has a 4 wire cable and it would presumably be difficult to daisy chain beyond it.
With your 3 keypads, you will need to use the M1DBHR since otherwise you would only have the 2 branches of the M1 to work with.
Terminating the data bus(es) can get tricky if you've never had to do it before. The M1DBHR instructions have some good examples of how to properly terminate things.
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