Advice in Designing new Elk System

[rmf]

Hi All -

Moved into a house about a year ago with an old GE Concord 4 system. Ironically, the house was built only 5-7 years ago - installed by a large alarm company in our area. Previous home was pre-wired, but I self-installed a DSC 1864 system that worked great and integrated with my HomeSeer steup for automation We used IP based monitoring for years and no issues with it. Wife liked it as well. Both my wife and I significantly dislike the Concord 4 system. DSC has discontinued the Power series in favor of the Neo which has a encrypted and proprietary bus which would prevent me from integrating the system with Homeseer.

I am hoping to make sure my understanding of the Elk system is complete and that I can obtain all of the pieces and parts that I will need.

Current system has 10 zones hardwired, 26 wireless zones (GE/Interlogix, which is 319.5mhz to my understanding), 3 keypads. I also have an "automation module" which allows it to be read by the Homeseer system which works fine.

My goals are:

• Fully remove and replace the Concord 4 system - improve usability
• Preserve local integration with homeseer (and possibly HA in the future?) to enable automation events
• Allow for IP based monitoring, as well as notification to cell phones of alarm events (usually done via email to text message)

From what I have read/researched I will need the following components:

1. Elk-M1GCB Gold System board (16 zones wired is sufficient) + power block + battery
2. Elk-M1DBHR Data Bus Hub for Retrofit (to connect keypads and other modules)
3. ELK-M1XRF319 Wireless Transceiver - looks to be compatible with the GE Concord/Interlogix line of 319.5mhz as well as Elk's own product line
4. Elk-M1XEP Ethernet Interface (looks like I will need firmware version 2.0.34 or greater)
5. Keypads x 3 - TBD
6. Siren, etc.

Does this seem about right for my "shopping list?"

Thank you in advance for the help!

 

[NormandyHA]

I'm no longer a Homeseer user, but had used HS4 until I moved to HA. That said, there's a HS3 M1 Gold plug-in that still functions with HS4 that will work with the M1EXP.

Your list is similar to mine, however I didn't use the retrofit bus but the M1DBH and ran Cat 6 to all my keypad locations. The M1DBHR makes sense if you are re-wiring with the existing wire.

As long as your M1XEP isn't used, I don't see why you'd have issues with older firmware. That said, you'll want the newer firmware to support TLS 1.2 as the earlier editions used TLS 1.0 and most operating systems no longer allow you to connect to it.

You'll need to configure your Elk M1G prior to Homeseer or HA integration and you'll need to use the ELK RP2 software to do this. I have a MacBook Pro M1 Max setup, so I run Windows 11 in a Parallels Desktop VM, but you should have no problems running Elk RP2 on a regular desktop PC, if that's what you use.

HA has an actively updated M1G integration were as the HS3 plug-in, while still available, is receiving no further development and no one was interested in purchasing it from the original developer to continue it's development. If/when HS stops supporting HS3 plug-ins, you'll be unable to integrate the M1 further with Homeseer. One of the reasons I moved over to HA, that and Matter/Thread support.

 

[Mark S.]

Looks good - sounds like you have done your research. The only thing I would add is to make sure you have an enclosure to hold everything. If you buy a bundled kit, it may come with a box. Personally, I bought the 28 inch enclosure (actually 2 of them) - this larger box provides more room to work and space for expansion boards (I kept adding and adding, thus the 2 boxes). The large box also lets you mount an electrical outlet so the power is internal to the box to minimize tamper opportunities. I also opted for a larger battery to extend power failure runtime. You may want to consider adding the relay expansion board - great for controlling garage doors and controlling anything else via a NO/NC contact.

Regarding integration with Homeseer, the current plugin works great - best thing I ever did with Homeseer. But the HS plugin is basically unsupported now as the author has "retired". Hopefully someone picks up support or develops a new one. I also integrate with Home Assistant - not as powerful, but still useful.

 

[rmf]

I'm no longer a Homeseer user, but had used HS4 until I moved to HA. That said, there's a HS3 M1 Gold plug-in that still functions with HS4 that will work with the M1EXP.

Your list is similar to mine, however I didn't use the retrofit bus but the M1DBH and ran Cat 6 to all my keypad locations. The M1DBHR makes sense if you are re-wiring with the existing wire.

As long as your M1XEP isn't used, I don't see why you'd have issues with older firmware. That said, you'll want the newer firmware to support TLS 1.2 as the earlier editions used TLS 1.0 and most operating systems no longer allow you to connect to it.

You'll need to configure your Elk M1G prior to Homeseer or HA integration and you'll need to use the ELK RP2 software to do this. I have a MacBook Pro M1 Max setup, so I run Windows 11 in a Parallels Desktop VM, but you should have no problems running Elk RP2 on a regular desktop PC, if that's what you use.

HA has an actively updated M1G integration were as the HS3 plug-in, while still available, is receiving no further development and no one was interested in purchasing it from the original developer to continue it's development. If/when HS stops supporting HS3 plug-ins, you'll be unable to integrate the M1 further with Homeseer. One of the reasons I moved over to HA, that and Matter/Thread support.

Thanks @NormandyHA. I have a love/hate relationship with HS. The software is wonky .... the way it handles Z-wave has lead to it losing my entire network once - which required opening up walls etc to re-pair everything. But when it works, it works well. There are just things they are slow to support/don't support - and I see those holes being filled by HA. HA had always scared me in regards to the programming required, but from what I understand it has gotten increasingly more user friendly over the past few years. So ... when it comes time to next upgrade or reporgram the system, I am thinking my next "version" will be on HA ...

My current keypads use standard 4 wire, so I think the retrofit board is the right one fore me. The locations would make pulling new ethernet difficult.

Good to know about the plugin for Elk though. I knew it existed as an HS3 plugin, and I was aware it was no longer supported. I do have a regular windows PC so the RP2 software shouldn't be a big issue.

Had two quick questions for you if you don't mind:

-Just to confirm, Elk has no "built in" wireless as part of the control board, correct? The way it's discussed on the website made me question, but I assume I am going to need some type of wireless module here.
-How was the migration from HS to HA?

Thanks again!

 

[rmf]

Looks good - sounds like you have done your research. The only thing I would add is to make sure you have an enclosure to hold everything. If you buy a bundled kit, it may come with a box. Personally, I bought the 28 inch enclosure (actually 2 of them) - this larger box provides more room to work and space for expansion boards (I kept adding and adding, thus the 2 boxes). The large box also lets you mount an electrical outlet so the power is internal to the box to minimize tamper opportunities. I also opted for a larger battery to extend power failure runtime. You may want to consider adding the relay expansion board - great for controlling garage doors and controlling anything else via a NO/NC contact.

Regarding integration with Homeseer, the current plugin works great - best thing I ever did with Homeseer. But the HS plugin is basically unsupported now as the author has "retired". Hopefully someone picks up support or develops a new one. I also integrate with Home Assistant - not as powerful, but still useful.

Thanks @Mark S. That is also very helpful. I do have the enclosure on the "list" as well. I agree with you - I don't know why they don't make the enclosures just a little bit bigger .... I just finished fixing my pool automation, and half the battle is that they stuck about 50% more into the box than they should have. Makes fixing anything in there a pain. Your advice is good - never an issue having a bigger box than required!

Thanks for the HS info - I was aware that it was an HS3 plugin (that fortunately still works with HS4) and that it was no longer supported. I guess I'll take my chances there.

Honestly, as I discussed above - I have considered moving to HA anyway, so if support with HS was lost I would probably use that as an excuse to move things over .... or if HS managed to mess up my Zwave nodes again lol

Thank you for your help!

 

[rmf]

One additional question you guys or anyone else who can help .... I was reading through the programming manual and this wasn't clear to me.

I have 3 zones I use as "monitor" zones" - i.e. alert me when they open/close but do not alarm. I use these on my garage doors to know when they change state. This is helpful for automation as well.

Ideally, what I'd like is a "chime" when the doors open/close, but no alarm in any state. Reading through the zone types for Elk, it wasn't clear to me which zone type would accomplish this. Could anyone suggest to me which one would work? I

 

[sbwright]

Yes elk zones can be set as "non alarm" zones. We have many on internal doors that are used to turn room lights on/off as you enter/exit. Chimes could be set up with a relay.

 

[rmf]

Thanks @sbwright. Do you happen to know if they can also trigger a chime?

Reading the manual, I saw that non-alarm zones were available but it wasn't clear to me if I could set it to chime on those zones.....

 

[sbwright]

Thanks @sbwright. Do you happen to know if they can also trigger a chime?

Reading the manual, I saw that non-alarm zones were available but it wasn't clear to me if I could set it to chime on those zones.....

I use a relay triggered by the zone to initiate chimes.

 

[rmf]

I use a relay triggered by the zone to initiate chimes.

Interesting. I'm going to have to look for how to do that ....

So there's no native "zone" that allows for chimes in a non-alarm zone then I take it?

 

[NormandyHA]

Thanks @NormandyHA. <snipped to make post shorter>
Had two quick questions for you if you don't mind:

-Just to confirm, Elk has no "built in" wireless as part of the control board, correct? The way it's discussed on the website made me question, but I assume I am going to need some type of wireless module here.
-How was the migration from HS to HA?

Thanks again!

The Elk M1 Gold does not have any "wireless" functionality onboard, but you can add the ELK-M1XRF319 you have on your list on the data bus to enroll and use your existing 319Mhz sensors. If you were wondering about WiFi, no the M1EXP is ethernet only.

While not "recommended", you could use an ethernet/WiFi adapter, but those incur a potential connectivity failure if there is an issue with the adapter. Problem is most of these are Wireless "N" and not current WiFi technology - https://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-Ethernet-2-WiFi-Universal-Wireless-GWU637/dp/B018YPWORE
Migration from HS to HA. Actually not too difficult from the Elk M1 perspective, you use the same credentials for your M1EXP module for HA and the Elk M1 "integration". As for my Z-wave, I'd moved to a new ZooZ ZAC93 LR GPIO module for my Home Assistant Yellow (ZAC93 LR GPIO is like $18.00). So I ran around and reset and re-enrolled my Z-Wave switches. Used the smartphone app for HA to do the enrollment while at each device so I could see the 5 digit S2 pin. Easy, unless you've hundreds of switches, but I've far less than that.

The Home Assistant Yellow has a built-in Zigbee radio (supports matter/thread if you choose to enable that feature), which provided me some unique opportunities. While I'd not "recommend" for absolute security (to many failure points to be the same reliability as the M1XRF319 for example)

Zigbee Aqara Door and Window sensors - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D37VDM3

Top rated for Zigbee and the size is great! Plus I have all my regular sensors hardwired and was interested in wireless. With the few number of sensors I wanted, didn't feel like it would offset the cost of the Elk wireless add-on.

I use the "zone_trigger" function to have the Zigbee Aqara to trigger a dummy zone on the Elk M1. Use it primarily as a few "chimes". To try an improve reliability, my HA Yellow PoE is on a switch with a UPS. If the HA Yellow looses communication, the Elk M1 will never know those contacts were triggered.

Fun, but again, I'd not use it for mission critical sensors that keep you and other residents safe.

 

[prsmith777]

When I moved into our new home about 8 years back, I did something similar. I gutted the old GE system and went with ELk Gold. House was wired pretty much so I added the Elk-M1XRF2H which is the honeywell version wireless.

I also have HomeSeer, on HS3 using the UltraM1G3 plugin which works flawlessly. Although its not supported I see no real problem with that since it works very well.
Chime is available on non alarm type zones:

​

 

[rmf]

The Elk M1 Gold does not have any "wireless" functionality onboard, but you can add the ELK-M1XRF319 you have on your list on the data bus to enroll and use your existing 319Mhz sensors. If you were wondering about WiFi, no the M1EXP is ethernet only.

While not "recommended", you could use an ethernet/WiFi adapter, but those incur a potential connectivity failure if there is an issue with the adapter. Problem is most of these are Wireless "N" and not current WiFi technology - https://www.amazon.com/IOGEAR-Ethernet-2-WiFi-Universal-Wireless-GWU637/dp/B018YPWORE
Migration from HS to HA. Actually not too difficult from the Elk M1 perspective, you use the same credentials for your M1EXP module for HA and the Elk M1 "integration". As for my Z-wave, I'd moved to a new ZooZ ZAC93 LR GPIO module for my Home Assistant Yellow (ZAC93 LR GPIO is like $18.00). So I ran around and reset and re-enrolled my Z-Wave switches. Used the smartphone app for HA to do the enrollment while at each device so I could see the 5 digit S2 pin. Easy, unless you've hundreds of switches, but I've far less than that.

The Home Assistant Yellow has a built-in Zigbee radio (supports matter/thread if you choose to enable that feature), which provided me some unique opportunities. While I'd not "recommend" for absolute security (to many failure points to be the same reliability as the M1XRF319 for example)

Zigbee Aqara Door and Window sensors - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07D37VDM3

Top rated for Zigbee and the size is great! Plus I have all my regular sensors hardwired and was interested in wireless. With the few number of sensors I wanted, didn't feel like it would offset the cost of the Elk wireless add-on.

I use the "zone_trigger" function to have the Zigbee Aqara to trigger a dummy zone on the Elk M1. Use it primarily as a few "chimes". To try an improve reliability, my HA Yellow PoE is on a switch with a UPS. If the HA Yellow looses communication, the Elk M1 will never know those contacts were triggered.

Fun, but again, I'd not use it for mission critical sensors that keep you and other residents safe.

Got it. I was only asking to make sure my understanding was correct. When you look at Elk's page they talk about support for up to XX wired zones and YYY wireless zones .... but it's never made perfectly clear that you ONLY get that with the adapter. I assumed I needed that adapter but.... wanted to be sure. So thanks for answering my admittedly dumb question.

The alarm box is in the same room as my ethernet rack, so the wired/wireless thing is a non-issue for me. I prefer wired whenever able (wish the person who installed my alarm system felt the same way, honestly).

Great info on the migration. I have about 50 z-wave switches right now, so not horrible. I've mostly stuck with Z-wave wireless at this point, but it would be nice to have better access to Matter/Zigbee etc. as time progresses. I see the industry moving more in that direction to be honest.

The garage chime is not a necessity, but it's nice to know when those get activated both from a conveinence and security standpoint. My wife does like the door chimes in general - with young kids, it's nice to know when someone is trying to break loose hahahah

 

[rmf]

When I moved into our new home about 8 years back, I did something similar. I gutted the old GE system and went with ELk Gold. House was wired pretty much so I added the Elk-M1XRF2H which is the honeywell version wireless.

I also have HomeSeer, on HS3 using the UltraM1G3 plugin which works flawlessly. Although its not supported I see no real problem with that since it works very well.
Chime is available on non alarm type zones:

View attachment 11192

​

Thanks @psmith777. Your project sounds very similar to mine. The GE Concord system feels like it belongs in the 1990s, to be honest. My wife hates it and as a result she doesn't use it. I want a better system while preserving the ability for Homeseer to utilize the alarm zones to help trigger events (i.e. light on when alarm is disarmed at night, turn all lights on when an alarm is triggered, etc. etc).

Thanks for the info about the triggers - again the manual was less than clear that this would be an option for a non-alarmed zone. I like to know when the garage door opens - especially since they seem to give me the most issue in terms of Z-wave reliability (i.e. HS deciding to operate the door at 2am ..... which I tracked back to a tilt sensor that went bad.... but that was an unwelcome wakeup call). It's nice to know when someone is returning home as the door opens, etc.

One question for you - if you were redoing this project today, would you select Elk again?

I ask because the Elk technology is .... still sorta old. I know the alarm system "space" changes slowly due to the life/safety implications. I looked at a lot of other options out there (2gig, konnect, etc.) but none of them really ticked all the boxes and got me as close as the Elk seemed to. As I said before, I had a DSC system I installed in a prior house that I liked (and so did the wife) but since they are discontinuing the Power series, I didn't want to go that direction already knowing it was being sunsetted.

 

[sbwright]

When I moved into our new home about 8 years back, I did something similar. I gutted the old GE system and went with ELk Gold. House was wired pretty much so I added the Elk-M1XRF2H which is the honeywell version wireless.

I also have HomeSeer, on HS3 using the UltraM1G3 plugin which works flawlessly. Although its not supported I see no real problem with that since it works very well.
Chime is available on non alarm type zones:

View attachment 11192

​

A question, I believe the chime function only initiates on the keypads?

I don't use the chime function myself since I can't hear it unless standing next to a keypad the wife on the other hand seems to have no problem hearing it. We have a long driveway and detached buildings and several driveway sensors so that we know when stuff comes and goes and use relays to trigger electronic doorbell chimes in several areas which don't currently have keypads