Terminal Blocks and EOLR

[dontheo]

With the EOL resistor on zone 1 it is probably for the smoke detectors.  The others sound like thy have been programmed out.  ADT is not the ADT of old and is a franchise business and you have no idea of who or what you are getting.  Typically it is all about peel and stick for them and it leaves one with a sense of false security.  With  that said, there are a few who do it right but it's rare.
 
I would be worried the resistor that you found should be at the end of the fire loop.  If you don't have smoke detectors installed to your system then I would leave it alone.  But something tells me you have 110v smoke installed by the builder and ADT added a smoke detector with their package and just slapped it in and it is not supervised.  

 

[Del91574]

With the EOL resistor on zone 1 it is probably for the smoke detectors.  The others sound like thy have been programmed out.  ADT is not the ADT of old and is a franchise business and you have no idea of who or what you are getting.  Typically it is all about peel and stick for them and it leaves one with a sense of false security.  With  that said, there are a few who do it right but it's rare.
 
I would be worried the resistor that you found should be at the end of the fire loop.  If you don't have smoke detectors installed to your system then I would leave it alone.  But something tells me you have 110v smoke installed by the builder and ADT added a smoke detector with their package and just slapped it in and it is not supervised.  

Incorrect assumptions.
 
The SWP 3000 panel is a modified V20P.
 
Zone 1 on both the 3000 and 20P can't be changed (supervision removed) because it's the normal 2 wire fire zone. Same reason why CO detectors won't work off hardwired expanders (NO zone types with 3 monitored states).
 
If there's no real point of installing EOLR's (multiple home run cables and devices per zone) I'd probably program them out also....people put way too much emphasis on EOLR's but fail to follow the paramount wiring methods to ensure they work properly. If supervision were paramount, then DEOLR would be the method and no more than a single device per zone. It's how it's done in many other applications.
 
I'd doubt that ADT installed ANY fire detection in this case, so the concern and worry would be unfounded.
 
ADT are no angels, however there are errors in your statement. ADT is corporate. Always have been. There are ADT dealers, which are mom and pop or small "authorized" dealers which use an approved menu of hardware and sell the monitoring account to ADT corporate, of which, are typically mass market panels and slap it in install for a low sticker price, but high contract terms and prices. The true fact is the installs are reflective on the person/company installing them. I've seen good ADT installs and bad installs, however I've seen more consistent hack work or incorrect installations done by the independent and mom and pop type companies.....20 years in the field here.

 

[carealtor]

I'm intrigued with the idea of using 66 or 110 punch down blocks as upstatemike described.  I would love to have more info on this concept...  pictures or whatever.
 
Most, but not all, of the wire from the window and door contacts is stranded.  Can you use stranded wire with a punch down block?

 

[upstatemike]

No. Insulation displacement connections are not reliable with stranded wire. Most of my wire is Cat 3, 5, or 6. When I do use stranded for audio or something I terminate it on terminal strips or wago nuts so it can transition to UTP wiring.
 
There are old pictures of some of my blocks on this site someplace.

 

[carealtor]

Yeah, I was afraid of that.  Oh well.
 
That gets me back to considering terminal blocks on a din rail again.

 

[pete_c]

Going back to the OP / second post
 
Good point.  The thing is, this is an ADT installation and I don't have the access or knowledge to change (disable) anything.  I'm skilled enough with wiring that I have no problem with cleaning up the horrible wiring job that I was left with.  I'm going to move it all into a different can and will make it nice and neat.
 
I honestly do not see why all of the work / verbiage here relating to a set up you can or cannot touch at this time. 
 
If you have no contract and are not using the panel then remove it and replace it and then redo your wires.   If it is 16 zones or less I wouldn't bother wasting the effort of a terminal block inside or even adjacent to the can. 
 
Such that this is really an exercise in futility right now.

 

[dontheo]

Incorrect assumptions.
 
The SWP 3000 panel is a modified V20P.
 
Zone 1 on both the 3000 and 20P can't be changed (supervision removed) because it's the normal 2 wire fire zone. Same reason why CO detectors won't work off hardwired expanders (NO zone types with 3 monitored states).
 
If there's no real point of installing EOLR's (multiple home run cables and devices per zone) I'd probably program them out also....people put way too much emphasis on EOLR's but fail to follow the paramount wiring methods to ensure they work properly. If supervision were paramount, then DEOLR would be the method and no more than a single device per zone. It's how it's done in many other applications.
 
I'd doubt that ADT installed ANY fire detection in this case, so the concern and worry would be unfounded.
 
ADT are no angels, however there are errors in your statement. ADT is corporate. Always have been. There are ADT dealers, which are mom and pop or small "authorized" dealers which use an approved menu of hardware and sell the monitoring account to ADT corporate, of which, are typically mass market panels and slap it in install for a low sticker price, but high contract terms and prices. The true fact is the installs are reflective on the person/company installing them. I've seen good ADT installs and bad installs, however I've seen more consistent hack work or incorrect installations done by the independent and mom and pop type companies.....20 years in the field here.

I think there are a lot of assumptions here that are incorrect. If you are looking inside the panel and see a resistor, it most likely strapping off the fire zone supervision. That is what I understood was the case. If ther is other WIRING attached to zone one, you have a big problem.

As far as the rest of the EOLs they don't matter in a home system. Typically we use them in commercial UL systems for supervision of the equipment during the day. An example would be a customer of a retail store tampering with a door contact so that it will be bypassed at night when the store closes. As for residential, the only resistor that matters is the fire zone. It would be imprudent to not check this as one is dealing with life safety.

In Texas, we see ADT giving away free smoke detectors all the time and disconnecting the original smoke detectors because they lost their fire alarm license in Texas at one time. Most franchise companies I have come across do not have a fire alarm license or the training to understand what they are doing.

Ted, CCP
NICET LEVEL III
Texas Fire Alarm Planner and Superintendent
Critical Infrastucture Endorsement

 

[carealtor]

A lot of interesting info here.  Thank you all for contributing.
 
To end the speculation, I can tell you with 100% certainty that zone 1 (with resistor) is my front door.
 
The home has a fire sprinkler system and alarm, but for whatever reason, ADT did not hook it up to the alarm panel.  The red wire is there at the panel, but is not hooked up.  I am not defending ADT for doing this, just disclosing what I know.

 

[dontheo]

You really should have someone out to service your fire alarm systems to make sure they are working. Depending on what State you live in the installing company or any company performing service may have to certify the system. A smoke detector Combined with a sprinkler system offers you some of the best safety available.

As for the balance of the security system there is not a lot of codes written dealing with installation practices. However, when one uses a burglar alarm panel as a confined burglar and fire alarm system, there is a lot more to be concerned about.

I would not worry too much about the security (burglary) part of the system as long as you understand the principles of how a burglary system works and understand it is a deterrent at best. Testing of your entire system on a specific time schedule will help more then anything.

I fought like hell to make sprinkler systems mandatory in Texas. Did you know that in places like Australia where they are mandatory there has been virtually no loss of life from residential fires! Here, our insurance companies and actuaries find it cheaper to pay for the loss of life rather then pay for possible mold remediation from water damage. How messed up is that.

Good luck.

 

[Del91574]

I think there are a lot of assumptions here that are incorrect. If you are looking inside the panel and see a resistor, it most likely strapping off the fire zone supervision. That is what I understood was the case. If ther is other WIRING attached to zone one, you have a big problem.

As far as the rest of the EOLs they don't matter in a home system. Typically we use them in commercial UL systems for supervision of the equipment during the day. An example would be a customer of a retail store tampering with a door contact so that it will be bypassed at night when the store closes. As for residential, the only resistor that matters is the fire zone. It would be imprudent to not check this as one is dealing with life safety.

In Texas, we see ADT giving away free smoke detectors all the time and disconnecting the original smoke detectors because they lost their fire alarm license in Texas at one time. Most franchise companies I have come across do not have a fire alarm license or the training to understand what they are doing.

Ted, CCP
NICET LEVEL III
Texas Fire Alarm Planner and Superintendent
Critical Infrastucture Endorsement

I explained the reason why zone 1 would be strapped off. Doubtful it's to bypass fire supervision.
 
Resistors make a difference, but the law of diminishing returns comes into play. 3 state zone wiring with multiple cables, home runs, or similar, the overall value is diminished. 4 state wiring would be specified if you really are concerned about cable integrity, which is the purpose of the EOLR, not necessarily tampering, which would mandate installs to meet the tighter specifications (DOD) which would have a tamper switch installed at every junction, multi-state supervision, balanced switches and minimal exposed cabling or armored cable below a certain height, in addition to 24H supervision of the cable and contact points themselves.
 
NEC dictates code for the remainder of the installation. Plenty of articles and workmanship standards to meet in that document that are typically always not met, both by novice and plenty of EC's combined.
 
As far as what you see, it's no different than the mom and pop companies and there's no distinction between national, dealer or independent installers. What you may see in your area is subjective....I've seen just as many independents perform poor installations or integration.
 
Dave
NICET IV Fire engineer
Former tech support, Notifier/Honeywell IS
NICET CCTV, A,B,C
Multi-state LV and FA contractor
DOE/DOD non-proliferation certified
SCIF/Top secret cleared, DOD
Multi-vendor certified
Current position unimportant.

 

[dontheo]

Dave
 
I think you are missing my point.  If the fire zone on the panel is zone 1 and can not be changed through programming from the manufacturer and there is a resistor on it, then it is indeed strapped off.  Is there detectors attached to it?  There is a sprinkler system which, as you know, is spot detection and needs to be backed up with smoke detection.  Smoke detection is required in all homes due to the material loading in the home.  More smoke, etc........  I don't like Ionization smoke detectors for this reason but all builders use them because they are half the cost of photoelectric.
 
The owner says the font door is attached to zone one.  That's a concern.
The owner says the "red wire" in the control panel is disconnected.  What is it? Prewired spare? Fire System disconnected?  
 
Relating to fire alarm systems and NEC, the National Electric Code, deals with wiring codes.  Beyond the NEC are several NFPA Standards, International Building Codes IBC), and the list goes on.  In Texas, we have adopted NFPA Standards as Code along with IBC and others.  As they often conflict, the more stringent of the codes apply.  They Life Safety Code tells one what is needed and the others tell one how to do it.
 
Not trying to get into a pissing match with you.  Just trying to help someone doing it themselves and not compromise their life safety system.  Assumptions should not be made. The residential world of fire and burglary systems is totally whacked in the US.  The builders rule through their strong lobbyists and most often cheaper labor and systems get installed.  No one oversees the installations.  It is very different from the commercial world were you and I came from.  On new homes, inspections are performed for the builders and not the home owners.  On resales, inspectors have no idea of what they are looking at regarding fire and security systems. They make sure smoke detectors are present and then sell the lead of the client they just inspected to companies like ADT.  
 
Enough of my pet peeve's
 
Ted   

 

[Del91574]

Zone definition of zone 1 can be changed, resistor can not be deleted from zone 1 on a 20P or the branded equivalent.
 
Nowhere did the OP say they left a red wire disconnected.....just a supervisory or courtesy wire from the sprinkler tie and no mention of cabling under the zone terminals.

To be honest, it sounds more like the installer deemed the connection to the sprinkler was not proper or the fitter might not have even installed a flow, tamper, pressure or whatever supervisory device the wet system should have, not discounting the fact the 20P doesn't have an appropriate ZT or RC for a waterflow signal, or the more likely case, the liability was not being released or the customer was not paying for fire alarm monitoring.....so no connection.

 

[pete_c]

To neaten up the OmniPro 2 panel power to PIR's going to try one of these little power strips.
 
Currently using one pair of 18 guage wires using little twist caps to the PIR power 22 guage wires.
 
All Electronics ESP# BT-6L/SLM.

Allows you to distribute power or signal to six outputs. Red LED indicates when 3-12Vdc is present. Can be used as a Series Loop Monitor (SLM) in alarm applications with simple modification described on package. Easy-to-use screw terminals. Includes double-stick tape for mounting. 1" x 2" x 0.5".
 

 
 

 

 

[pvrfan]

To neaten up the OmniPro 2 panel power to PIR's going to try one of these little power strips.
 
Currently using one pair of 18 guage wires using little twist caps to the PIR power 22 guage wires.
 
All Electronics ESP# BT-6L/SLM.

Allows you to distribute power or signal to six outputs. Red LED indicates when 3-12Vdc is present. Can be used as a Series Loop Monitor (SLM) in alarm applications with simple modification described on package. Easy-to-use screw terminals. Includes double-stick tape for mounting. 1" x 2" x 0.5".

Could have used this a couple of weeks ago when I was re-doing my security system.  I knew there had to be something like this available but I didn't know the correct name and could not find a source.  Oh well, the wire nut is holding.  The LED looks like it adds a bit of bling!  
 
Craig

 

[pete_c]

Got the little terminal strip with the power connections and LED.  Installed it.  I like the little red LED.  A bit bright.
 
ESP pictures show it installed under the alarm terminal strips.  That is where my HAI batteries are so put it to the left up front a bit.
 
Manufacturer info:
 
ESP
Electronic System Products Co., Inc.
2492 Wall Street, Jonesoboro, GA 30236
 
Email is esparts at gmail dot com
TEL: 800-595-5008
 
Website:
 
Electronic System Products Co., Inc.