Wiring Elk M1 + System Sensor RRS-MOD and 2W-MOD2

I have most of my smokes/heats run. Used 2WTA-B detectors and 5601P for heat only.

I found a set of wiring diagrams for this combination, located here: http://www.systemsensor.com/pdf/bulletins/modulewiring.pdf

I want the maintenance signal to go to a separate zone (since I have the room), so that narrows it down to Figure 1 or Figure 2. From there, Im not sure. Do I use Output 3 as the relay (as in Figure 2)? If so, Im reading it as jumping the aux power + from the board to one side of the output3 relay. Is that correct?

Or is there already power going to one side of the relay so I dont need to jumper it in? I just didnt want to do something and "let out the smoke" as they say.

Finally, when I wire it to the panel the System Sensor diagram shows 2 EOLRs but doesnt give a value. Am I to use the value that the panel requires? Or is there a different resistor that is required.

Thanks in advance.

-Chris

I am interested in same thing. Looking forward to responses. But have you contacted system sensor at 800-736-7672? HIT 2 FOR TECHNICAL.

they are helpful and know their stuff.

I am looking at having freeze alarm.

I think I may have answered my own question, but am still looking for replies from a pro (or someone else who has done this before)

Looking at the wiring diagram for the Elk water cutoff valve, it too uses Output 3. It too has +12V feeding the common contact on the output, and then has 2 leads from the valve to the NO and NC sides of the relay.

So it looks like yes, +12V should go to common on the relay. Purple wire on the RRS should go to the NO side of output 3, then setup a rule to close output 3 when your fire zone is triggered. The 2wmod2 should wire up as listed in the same diagram (the 2wmod2 is the easy part)

OK looks like its all wired up. EZ Loop test shows no issues, all of the alarms are blinking.

Question - the manual for the alarms (2WTAB) says under normal conditions the green LED should blink every 5 seconds.

What Im seeing is it blink every 15 seconds. There is nothing in the manual referring to any condition where the green LED blinks 15 seconds, so Im wondering if what Im reading is just a typo.

Anyone else see the same?

I havent gone all out yet and tested them with smoke and/or heat, small kids hanging around and I didnt want to wreck their ears (although I might give them some ear protection and have at it)

OK, still talking to myself here

The local alarm will go off and sound, the keypads sound the temporal pulse, etc. I can reset just fine from the keypad. The 2WMOD2 loop status is good.

However the rest of the smokes do not start sounding.

I have the RRSMOD and 2WMOD2 wired up correctly (from what I can see) using figure 2 in the document I linked to in the original post. Purple going to the N/O contact of Output 3, and Vaux+ going to the common of Output 3. Then added a rule:

"whenever any fire alarm turns on, then turn output 3 on"

Is that rule correct? I cant be in 2 places at once to see if the relay clicks and doesnt stay energized or if its just not clicking at all.

What you're experiencing is normal. I'm watching mine as I type this.

The unit gets wired like a 4 wire smoke to the panel for reset and alarm purposes. The RRS gets tied to an aux power supply capable of supporting the detectors in alarm. The purple gets jumped to +12V through any dry contact relay, with a rule firing it on fire alarm to provide the voltage to trigger the RRS.

You posted while I was typing....

The reversing relay typically takes a second or two prior to triggering a tandem ring, however, do you have the dip set properly for continous voltage triggering the unit instead of a Temp-3 pulse?

What happens if you provide +12 straight to the purple by connecting to aux power or touching it to the battery?

Didnt even notice teh DIP switch! Go figure.

It was set to off. Reading the manual (hey look it mentions a switch!) it looks like it should be set to On for continuous trigger.....does that sound right?

OK, now everything goes off at once...BUT for some reason when I went into the Reset Smoke Detectors section of the Elk menu, pressing the right arrow didnt start the reset. Actually had to power down the panel to get it to stop. Im guessing this is not normal

The fire zone is zone 16 on the panel set as Fire Alarm, zone type 5.

Maintenance is zone 15 on the panel, set as Freeze Alarm EOLR supervised.

Another clue:

If I attempt to reset the smoke detectors without the system in alarm, I get a "Fire Trouble" code at the keypads after the reset.

AAAAAND a little more:

turns out I had the incorrect value EOLRs installed on the 2WMOD2. Not sure how I have 2 resistors that ARENT 2.2k but naturally those 2 ended up there.

I can now reset the smokes *while the system is NOT in alarm*. However I still end up with Fire Trouble (event code 1128) while trying to reset the smokes *when they are in alarm*. Also while they are in alarm I took a look at the violated zone list, and zone 16 (my fires) was flashing between Trouble and Ready, and I cannot access menu item 2 (Reset Smoke Detectors) while they are in alarm.

Even more disconcerting, the system rebooted itself after I tried to do the Reset Smoke Detector selection a bunch of times.

Should I try updating the firmware? Im on a fairly old version (5.0.12, boot version 3.2.2). I havent read all the change logs but wonder if there is a fix/improvement somewhere along the lines that might help me out.

EDIT: just to be clear - I have 2 5601P heat detectors on the same loop. I see in the manual for them it says not to mix them with 2WTA-B smokes when using the RRSMOD. Could I have damaged something by doing this? I didnt think it would be a problem (a wise bird told me so....). Pretty sure nothing got damaged, as the reset seems to work fine when not in alarm. And Ive seen a few references to this same issue which turned out to be wiring issues, but in my case I cant see any incorrect wiring (but Ive missed things more than once before!)

You probably used the 2 resistors that come with the panel for a 2W fire loop (820 ohm).

The fire alarm will go into trouble on alarm/reversed condition. This is normal, since the loop's polarity is reversed (diodes and all that fun stuff going on).

Have you entered in a valid code to acknowledge prior to attempting a reset? The reset takes a couple of seconds to actually go through (been a while since I've had to try all of this). You do have the 2W-MOD2 connected to SAUX?

Firmware has nothing to really do with the panel's operation in this case.

Yeah, the resistors were 800-something. 2WMOD2 definitely connected to SAUX, and the smoke detector reset function seems to work correctly if the RRSMOD portion isnt tripped (i.e. isnt in alarm). The green LED on the 2WMOD2 goes blank for a second, then comes back on solid for a bit (normal, per the manual). Meanwhile the panel gives Fire Trouble, I assume because the 2W is still "booting up". Once the 2W is "booted up" the fire trouble on the panel goes away. I figure this is how it SHOULD work even during alarm, but it doesnt look like it is.

Took the heat detectors out of the loop just to be sure. Tried it all again.

I can set the alarms off, go to the nearest keypad and punch in the code to acknowledge. Alarms still making noise at that point.

Once acknowledged I attempt to reset the smoke detector thru the keypad menu but pressing the right arrow on the keypad doesnt seem to do anything. Same goes for any other menu choice. Meanwhile the fire sirens are still blaring.

After a bit of punching buttons trying to get stuff to work (or just a given amount of time) I see "Keypad Addr 2 Lost Comm", i.e. the system reboots. EDIT: it must be from trying to punch so many buttons or what-not. I left the whole thing alone and it happily blared the sirens for as long as I could stand (5+ minutes). I also pulled the motions and glassbreaks out of the system since they were powered off the panel, just to be sure its not a current draw issue. Still cant access any sub-menu in the main Elk menu (which means I cant reset the smokes).

I noticed a thread from a while back where it was suggested to try a 470 ohm resistor across the white and orange leads of the RRSMOD (the System Sensor manual says to use it for Ademco panels to allow them to reset correctly, but the theory was that it might be necessary for the Elk as well). Im not sure that applies when used with the 2WMOD2, but I do have the resistor available to try if anyone thinks that might help.

Something else I just tried: the rule I have for output 3 says Whenever Any Fire then Turn On Output 3. Instead I added "for 30 seconds" to the rule, so it *should* have turned off output 3 after 30 seconds, which I thought would turn off the RRSMOD and silence the alarms. Output 3 DID NOT turn off after 30 seconds, the alarms were still blaring and when I went to the panel the RRSMOD was still clicking in the temp 3 pulse.

For anyone out there following along:

I tried adding the 470 ohm resistor across the white and orange contacts of the RRSMOD. This did in fact solve the issue. HOWEVER, I was advised that it should NOT be required to fix the issue, so Ive since taken it out of the loop (at least temporarily)

Ive been able to get it working without the resistor by changing the loop time to 800ms (set the fire zone to fast loop response, then change the fast loop response time in Globals to 800ms). This was suggested by Elk support. However this precludes using a zone temp sensor (since they need a 200ms response time....I suppose I could change the slow loop response time to 200ms in Globals as well, but not sure how that would affect every other sensor/contact on the system)

Not satisfied with having to change the loop response times, I did some more troubleshooting.

If I remove the 2WMOD2 altogether and make it a 2-wire fire system (JP1 on the control board, correct definitions in ElkRP, 820ohm EOLR), the setup works. So it seems to be something with the 2WMOD2.

Since the 2WMOD2 is powered, Im wondering if maybe this is a current draw issue. Elks current draw worksheet shows my current setup (including the 2WMOD2) at 730mA in alarm.