UPB Install

I'm in the process of installing a few SA UPB switches this weekend. The first two went smoothly; one US2-40 to control the living room cans and a US11-40 for the porch lights. This my first foray into UPB so I was feeling pretty positive after getting them installed and setup with UpStart. Then my 3-way install knocked me down a peg. I have an existing 3-way circuit; a switch at the bottom and top of the stairwell. The top box has the load wires. I am replacing both switches with US2-40s. What I decided to do, and please tell me if this doesn't make sense, is to wire the two switches in parallel (neutral-to-neutral, line-to-line). The switch in the box with the load wires is the one that will actually switch the load, so the brown wire on that US2-40 is connected to line wire going to the light. I also connected the existing red wire (3rd connector for the traditional 3-way) between the two switches using the wht/red wire on each. I got it all hooked up and the top switch works as I expected - the bottom did not. I went into Upstart (first time for either of these two switches) and set them up and got the bottom switch to work, but only by enabling Rocker1 to transmit. That seems to work. Based on my limited knowledge of UPB, it seems that this only works because a) UpStart magically knew to create a link between these two and b) this link is sending UPB messages telling the other switch what to do.
 
So I have a couple of questions:
1. Is there any way to have the bottom switch actually use the red wire to tell the upper switch to turn on/off instead of using links? I don't mind that it works the way that it does, but I want to better understand the wiring for UPB. It seems like those remote wires should work, but perhaps not between two US2-40s?
2. The bottom switch has no load on it and I capped the brown wire with wire nut. I'm still a little nervous with live wire in the box. Is there a way to shut off load in control so that the brown wire is never live? I didn't see this option in UpStart.
3. I'm using UpStart without the wizard. Is it normal that it tries to guess the links you want? It went a little crazy and created links I had to then go remove.
 
Thanks for the all the help via the various UPB threads. I wouldn't have gotten this far!

So, first of all - those remote wires are not intended to work like that - not between two active switches.  It's for hooking up a USR40A Slave rocker switch only; and those carry line voltage so I'd hurry up and disconnect that - I'm not sure exactly what damage might be caused, but I wouldn't want to find out.
It's not uncommon to do what you're doing because people want granular control of the light - but I found enough work arounds with the light on the USR that I have no desire to introduce the additional problems that come from using them in that way (requiring links between them which can cause problems with other apps that try to pay attention to status) and they cost more.    
 
You can turn that load off on the 240 - you just set it not to Receive any links and have the load turned off (With an 1140 it's in a different place but still doable) - then it won't react to the rocker.  That said it's really no big deal to have the capped wire in the box - everything in the box should be properly grounded so if it were to get loose, it'd just blow the breaker.  Wires behind the switch don't move once the switch is closed up.
 
If you haven't already, read the link in my signature about UPB - it covers in pretty good detail all the aspects of the Simply Automated line - although the formatting was a whole lot better before it went to this new forum style.
 
Re: Upstart - never seen that behavior so I can't speak to it - but I do use the wizard and I only do one switch at a time; had all sorts of problems occur when trying to set up multiple switches at once.

Not to high jack this thread, but I have a very similar question. I have a three way that controls lighting in my master closet (two entrances). I'd like to add these to my upb system. Do I have to use a remote in this situation? Or can I use two 240's or others, I ask because I want to multitask the leg in the bathroom, and if it ends up being wired as the remote end (haven't pulled it open yet to see), then a simple remote switch probably won't do. Also, in a 3-way setup, do LEDs indicate status of the light or switch.

Thanks,

Russ

Anytime you use a 3 way UPB switch, you need need a remote switch. Also, just wire the main switch to control the load, this sometimes mean sending the switched side from one box to the other to get to the light. Once you have the main switch controlling the light, you just wire the other box as if you were installing an outlet there, plus the one traveler back to the main. IOW, the remote box needs hot/common/ground and a traveler. It doesn't actually wire to the light or actually control it. It controls the main switch only.

Thanks, W2P. Either those remote wires won't cause damage or I got very lucky because I did quite a bit of testing with them connected. I've since disconnected them and everything is working fine. I suppose I could have killed the remote portion of the switches so it's a good thing I don't need them! Your write-up was very helpful. It's what helped me decide on SA and get me this far.
 
To disable the links, do I set all 16 links in the Receive Components tab to "Unused"? If I understand the 240s correctly, doing that means it will never control a load.
 
Thanks again. My weekend was a success. I've got two 240s and two 1140s installed and they doing exactly what was intended. Now onto integrating these with my OPII.

Frunple - reading your post - I think I know what you're saying but it's not clear... basically if you're doing the hot/common/traveller as in a traditional 3-way setup, then you use a normal switch plus a slave; if you have hot and neutral at each spot, then you can use switches without the remote feature whatsoever - entirely through links...
 
cmarcus - yes basically you set the local load to not receive any links at all and the state will never change.

Frunple,
 
I have 3 and 4 way setups.  I use active switches in all of them.  They just use links to talk to each other.  Works very well.
 
the "slaves" just have their load wires capped and taped.  The "master" has it's load tied to the circuit where it leaves the wall and enters the ceiling to get to the light itself.
 
--Dan

drozwood90 said:

Frunple,
 
I have 3 and 4 way setups.  I use active switches in all of them.  They just use links to talk to each other.  Works very well.
 
the "slaves" just have their load wires capped and taped.  The "master" has it's load tied to the circuit where it leaves the wall and enters the ceiling to get to the light itself.
 
--Dan

Click to expand...

That is what I do as well, and that is the way to go.  I tried slave remote switches first. Bad idea. You save a small bit of money, but you pay for it with terrible feel, the LED not synced, slow response, etc.  Plus with "virtual 3-ways" ANY switch can control ANY light(s) and you don't need to modify  a single wire.

Here too I am not using any UPB AUX switches; never did.  I capped / labled all of the older traveler wires.

Guys, you can do whatever you want with links. I think we all know that. My point is 3 way setups. When using links it's no longer 'technically' a 3 way setup. A 3 way setup uses the traveler and a remote switch.
I can put a switch in my bathroom to control my front porch light using a link if I wanted to.

Understood Frunple. 
 
Yeah the hardware 3 way has evolved a bit with using AUX switches for X-10, Insteon, UPB and Z-Wave.
 
Actually using an Aux hardwired switches makes the transition a bit easier with someone familiar with basic electric knowledge. (a typical home contractor). 
 
I guess though using UPB links it would be considered a "virtual" 3  way switch set up. 
 
I was already doing this with the legacy insteon switches a few years back which too was not a real hardware 3 way with traveler connection but rather just a virtual 3 way.
 
 

Frunple said:

Guys, you can do whatever you want with links. I think we all know that. My point is 3 way setups. When using links it's no longer 'technically' a 3 way setup. A 3 way setup uses the traveler and a remote switch.
I can put a switch in my bathroom to control my front porch light using a link if I wanted to.

Click to expand...

There is no "3-way" switch for UPB.  If you want one of those, I'd try Home Depot.  For UPB a wired "remote" switch does exist which can send a signal to a main switch over an extra wire formerly used by the 3-way traveler wire, but this is NOT a 3-way switch.  The reason that I and others have commented that these are a bad idea is because many people do not realize that better alternatives exist.  The original post for this thread was about just such a remote switch.  I myself initially purchased many of the remote switches before I knew they were junk. Luckily I got $5 each for them on eBay.  You are free to use these if you like, but our posts are for others that might not realize alternatives exist.

Frunple,
 
I was not saying you were wrong, but when I read your reply...it gave me the feeling you were advocating that as the only way.  I realize that was not true, but to someone not really familiar with UPB, they might not realize that you can accomplish the same thing using links.  I never went with remote switches, mostly because I knew having all the switches the same, I would be able to configure links to do whatever I wanted.
 
I actually have a few that have resolved issues with where the builder put light switches.  It made my wife very happy.  As you said, I did not even have to cut the drywall.  Just popped a new split faceplate on the US240, reprogrammed it and bingo...done.
 
--Dan

ano said:

There is no "3-way" switch for UPB.  If you want one of those, I'd try Home Depot.  For UPB a wired "remote" switch does exist which can send a signal to a main switch over an extra wire formerly used by the 3-way traveler wire, but this is NOT a 3-way switch.  The reason that I and others have commented that these are a bad idea is because many people do not realize that better alternatives exist.  The original post for this thread was about just such a remote switch.  I myself initially purchased many of the remote switches before I knew they were junk. Luckily I got $5 each for them on eBay.  You are free to use these if you like, but our posts are for others that might not realize alternatives exist.

Click to expand...

Where are you going to find a 3 way UPB switch at home depot?
 
getting a little ridiculous here, aren't we?

He was talking about a real 3-way switch.  Not a UPB one.
 
Geesh...let's be civil everyone!  I come here to enjoy my work day - stress release...I get enough irritation from others here.
 
--Dan