Detached workshop; Elk wiring suggestions

So I'm in the process of having a 12' x 24' workshop built in my backyard. It's probably 50% built now, after which I will be doing quite a bit of my own work to it... electrical, insulation, building cabinets and shelving, etc.
 
That said, I wanted to find out what you guys would recommend in terms of wiring for Elk. I have a 1-1/4" conduit specifically for low voltage. I am currently planning to add 2 cameras to the exterior of it and will also probably bring in another coax line for cable (no plans to add a TV out there now, but I figure I may as well pull it now as opposed to doing it later. Additionally, I will probably also bring in a wired CAT5e line for internet (from which I may end up adding an access point out there, but no telling for now).
 
Re: ELK, I want to add it as a separate area to the homes system, but looking for some advice as to what wiring should be pulled back to the main panel. The shop will have a double hung door and 2 windows, so I want all of those covered, and I'll probably put in an interior motion as well. Should I pull all of these back to the main panel, or would it make more sense to add an input expansion board in the shop and tie the sensors into that? I'd also like to have a siren out there as well... would that be better run off a separate output expansion board? Thoughts?
 
 

My situation is identical to yours. I went the expansion board route and am glad I did. Makes future improvements or upgrades a lot easier.

I ran two 1" conduits for LV cables in addition to the conduit for the electrical feeder to my 20'x40'.
I ran the alarm wiring in one and LAN wiring in the other.

I have door contacts for the entry and overhead doors, three motions in series, heat detectors in series and exterior lighting motion sensors.
I branched off from my shop to a 16'x24' shed, so the wiring for the door contacts, motions and exterior lighting motions route through the shop and back to the main house.

I ran several Cat-5 cables in the other conduit for LAN ports and two IP cameras.

Always keep a pull cord in the conduit to pull additional wires later.

Alright, so let's assume that I want to go with adding an input (M1XIN for sensors) and output expander (M1XOVR for siren) to the detached workshop, along with the keypad out there as well.
 
Am I correct to assume that it would be easiest to just add a DBH to the workshop and only require 1 cable between my homes DBH and the DBH in the workshop? Am I missing something?
 
NOTE: I understand that I could do it without the DBH, I just prefer the clean wiring that the DBH allows vs. the wiring required to chain these things together.
 
Is there anything that I am overlooking in terms of additions to the Elk?
 
Would I be "ok" just adding a second 24VAC transformer to power the workshop motions, or should I be looking at something else?

I do the same basic thing but to my attached garage; a single Cat5E with a local power supply gets you inputs, outputs, etc - you can handle sirens, door openers, several input types, etc...   I realize it's easier to add a DBH but honestly there's so little wiring going on, I personally wouldn't (and didn't) waste the money... Elk even publishes some nice documents on running several devices off a single "leg" off a DBH - I've attached it here a few times in the past.  A can on or in the wall makes it all clean.  That one wire would take care of everything off the elk other than maybe a speaker should you need local sound, but since it'll be a different area, I'd cover that through a local piezo buzzer/siren in the shop (maybe both - a low volume warning, and an ear piercing siren, controlled by rules).  Be sure to add some surge protection on both ends of the wire so you don't blow out your M1, and tie the grounds together for common reference.
 
As for the shop power, even though the Elk runs off the 24VAC (or is it 16? I can't remember) - the attached devices run off 12V.  They make a specific power supply that connects to the data bus downstream, providing its own power to the databus connected devices as well as other peripherals - that's the one to go with - the Elk P212S.  Be sure to size the shop batteries for slightly longer runtime than the house - wonky things happen when the peripherals die before the main power supply does.
 
For ethernet, either a single Cat5e/6a and/or a run of fiber would be good - nowadays many affordable 8-port switches can handle an SFP then you have zero surge issues to worry about - some support POE too for cameras and access points.  This is one of my favorites.

Thanks for the response.
 
I completely understand the wiring of the databus, I just prefer the DBH for aesthetics for the most part. To me it's a much cleaner looking install as opposed to having various wires daisy-chained together, and a lot easier for me to understand what everything is if I need to go back and work on things later.
 
That aside, I assumed that the M1XIN and M1XOVR would be powered via the databus, but I do like the idea of having the dedicated battery for the workshop rather than trying to run everything off the primary battery. Additionally, I made a wrong assumption in a previous post, thinking that the motions were run off 24VAC. Being able to run them off the P212S also makes sense ;-)
 
I currently have KP2s in my home. Is there any reason to use a different keypad in the workshop?
 
RE: Network connectivity, yeah, I was just planning to run a single Cat5E cable out there which I really don't even plan to use, but I'd rather have it out there just in case. I plan to do fairly serious woodwork and similar projects so I don't plan to be spending too much time online while out there... if anything I'd probably just add an access point off the Cat5E from the house.

The DBH is just personal choice... I'm cheap though and they take up space!

The P212S is nice in that it allows you to power downstream databus-connected devices from it rather than off the panel fixing voltage-drop issues as well as of course giving you a local power supply for the shop accessories (motions/glassbreaks) and even a local siren/piezo if desired.

A KP2 should be fine out there... Though again personally, I'd go cheap and just do that single-gang little keypad. It's unlikely you'd want the shed having the same audible interaction as keypads inside the house... It's all preference and budget.

How will you get music in the outbuilding?

WiFi coverage is another thing to consider.

Not sure if you're consider Elk announcements.

Neurorad said:

How will you get music in the outbuilding?

WiFi coverage is another thing to consider.

Not sure if you're consider Elk announcements.

Click to expand...

Not planning to have any music out there. However, if I choose to do so, I'd probably just add a stereo receiver as a stand-alone system. As a workshop (primarily a woodshop) it's probably going to be plenty dusty; not a great environment for electronics.
 
If I end up adding an AP off the networked Cat5E, WiFi coverage won't be an issue.
 
At this time, I'm not planning to have any Elk announcements inside the workshop. The only consideration that I can come up with is if I was out there working and someone rang the doorbell of my home, but overall I'm not that worried about it.

yeah - it depends of course on how much space you have between you and your neighbors, but in a lot of situations I don't think I'd want normal announcements out there... or maybe have them but have them switched on/off based on if you're out there.  I wouldn't want my day to day internal announcements played in the workshop.

Quick question regarding adding a M1DBH to the workshop... I don't see any documentation that references multiple DBHs on a single installation.
 
I currently already have (1) M1DBH installed in my main panel; it currently has J1-J3 used, with the terminating plug installed in J4.
 
Regarding the connection of the second DBH, which will end up going to J4. Does the terminating plug then just move to J5 on the main DBH? Does a terminating plug also need to be used in the same manner on the second DBH (the next un-used plug)?

There are two ways to handle a 2nd DBH... one is to use the second Data Bus leg off the M1 - if you recall, the M1 allows 2 legs, although most people just terminate one and run the DBH on the other... The other is to use a standard Ethernet crossover cable between DBH1 and DBH2, don't do any termination on the first DBH, and just put the terminating resistor on the first unused jack of the 2nd DBH.
 
It's late but IIRC, the first option is probably the better one for keeping the databus length a tad shorter, especially considering the distance of the workshop from the house.  With Option 2, it has to make a return loop back to the house doubling that distance.

After a bit more digging I did find the reference to using a crossover cable between DBH1 and DBH2; it was right in front of me in the DBH installation manual (at the VERY bottom... who ever gets that far though instructions??)
 
That said, after reading your post above I also reviewed the standard diagram more as well:
 

 
The main thing that I noted here, was that terminating jumpers would need to be used at the end of each leg.
 
Based on this diagram, it's obviously possible to run 2 legs (as you stated above) off the primary Data Bus connector. (Note: there is also an Aux Data Bus connector that I assume can be used as well) That former being the case, I wanted to double check that this would also be suitable:
 

Work2Play said:

There are two ways to handle a 2nd DBH... one is to use the second Data Bus leg off the M1 - if you recall, the M1 allows 2 legs, although most people just terminate one and run the DBH on the other... The other is to use a standard Ethernet crossover cable between DBH1 and DBH2, don't do any termination on the first DBH, and just put the terminating resistor on the first unused jack of the 2nd DBH.
 
It's late but IIRC, the first option is probably the better one for keeping the databus length a tad shorter, especially considering the distance of the workshop from the house.  With Option 2, it has to make a return loop back to the house doubling that distance.

Click to expand...

 
 
The dbh instructions tell you how to do this.  But you lose 2 spots.  Also keep in mind that your wire run length is the sum of all devices plugged in to the dbh times 2.  With 14 runs, it could be too long.  So you might instead choose to run the two dbh's in parallel directly off the Elk.  Of course this means that everything else will have to run off the dbh, since the Elk can only have 2 parallel runs.
 
Lastly, it doesn't sound like you have considered grounding and lightening protection.  Running wire between structures underground is a risky thing.  Are you putting in a separate electric service in the second building?  If so, you need to make sure you only have a single ground for both structures.  In other words, don't use a grounding spike for building 2, tie it in to building 1's ground.  A lightening strike will setup a potential in the earth and typically this will weaken as the distance from the strike point increases.  So the closer ground will have a different potential than the further one, and a current will try to run between them if there is a path.  Since you have Elk stuff grounded in the one building, and other stuff grounded in your primary building, it very easily could use the communications cabling between the two close that potential difference.  The basic jist is, you want the potential throughout your entire interconnected stuff to rise evenly together and fall evenly together.  Think of a wave of water, you don't want two boats tied together scraping sides when the wave lifts them sequentially, you want a single boat that lifts and falls as one.
 
Also, the wires under ground should be shielded and grounded to prevent EM induced current in the wires.  The grounding should be to the primary buildings ground, the same ground that everything else is attached to..

drvnbysound said:

. (Note: there is also an Aux Data Bus connector that I assume can be used as well) 

Click to expand...

 
No, you can only have the two runs off the main databus connections.  The other spots are for temporary use.