120 V Hardwired Smoke to Use with Elk

[sonypoolplr]

I presently have 120 v hardwired smoke detectors in my home that I would like to hook into my elk m1 system. Currently when one goes off, they all go off. Does anyone know of a detector that I can use with this setup?

Thank you.

 

[wuench]

Search on GE350CX

 

[Del91574]

IMHO, avoid like the plague.

 

[sonypoolplr]

IMHO, avoid like the plague.

Avoid what? The GE350CX?

Why?

 

[video321]

Avoid what? The GE350CX?

Why?

I can only assume it has to do with the gray area of wiring low & high voltage devices in the same box and the simple fact that if the smokes never went off and there was an injury/death a finger can always be pointed at that device. I was looking at it myself at one point, but decided if I did anything I would just supplement the 120Vs with a few 12V smokes to monitor.

edit....originally I thought that was the relay device, not an entire detector.

 

[Sandpiper]

GE Security has been sold to UTC Fire and Security but still uses the GE Security name. There is more information about a recall on the GE Security 350 series smoke detectors manufactured in the 2005 time frame at the UTC web site here.

As far as interconnection of power limited signals to a 120VAC smoke relay, this has been discussed many times before, and the same folks will continue to argue not to do it. Your local inspector should be aware of NEC section 725.136(D) which allows it.

 

[video321]

Having another read I do see where it states non-power-limited fire alarm too.

 

[Sandpiper]

I forgot to include this section from the National Fire Alarm Code (NFPA72):

11.7.6.7 Installations that include the connection of single- or multiple-station alarms with​

other input or output devices, such as but not limited to relay modules, remote signaling​

devices, phone dialers, security panels, heat detectors, and manual pull stations, shall be​

permitted, providing that an open or short circuit of the wiring leading to these input or​

output devices does not prevent normal operation of the single- or multiple-station alarm.

 

[wuench]

The O.P. asked specifically about 120v options, the GE350CX is the only one I am aware of. And probably what I will do when I get around to it. It is very appealing to only have to run 1 or 2 wires vs. having to run wire throughout my whole house and possibly have to do ceiling drywall... blagh...

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I think Kiddie might have an option like the GE 350 CX.

 

[sonypoolplr]

After posting this I started looking around the internet more and I fond an article that showed using the Kiddle smoke detectors and also a Relay module for smoke alarms. This relay module gets installed just like another smoke detector and then has contacts that can be hooked ino the alarm system. The model number of the relay is SM120X. This looks like a good option for this type of install. Since I already have the 120 v detectors installed in the house I am trying to do this without having to rewire the whole house. I figure I can put the relay into another box in the ceiling in the closet where my panel is located, with is not far from one of the existing detectors.

I was wondering what everyones thought's are about this.

Thanks

 

[Mattbarrett]

After posting this I started looking around the internet more and I fond an article that showed using the Kiddle smoke detectors and also a Relay module for smoke alarms. This relay module gets installed just like another smoke detector and then has contacts that can be hooked ino the alarm system. The model number of the relay is SM120X. This looks like a good option for this type of install. Since I already have the 120 v detectors installed in the house I am trying to do this without having to rewire the whole house. I figure I can put the relay into another box in the ceiling in the closet where my panel is located, with is not far from one of the existing detectors.

I was wondering what everyones thought's are about this.

Thanks

One of the problems with doing this is the relay requires 120 volts to function, so even though the detectors have battery backup, it will not trigger the relay (and activate the panel) in and ac-loss situation... Imagine if the fire has already knocked the AC to the detectors out, while rare it is possible.

Matt Barrett
Hotwired Electric LLC

 

[Desert_AIP]

One of the problems with doing this is the relay requires 120 volts to function, so even though the detectors have battery backup, it will not trigger the relay (and activate the panel) in and ac-loss situation... Imagine if the fire has already knocked the AC to the detectors out, while rare it is possible. Matt Barrett Hotwired Electric LLC

The GE 350CX relays work on backup power.
The signal on the traveller is 9V regardless of whether they are on primary or backup power, so they will signal the other detectors either way.
The sounders and relays work on backup power as well.

 

[Mattbarrett]

The GE 350CX relays work on backup power.
The signal on the traveller is 9V regardless of whether they are on primary or backup power, so they will signal the other detectors either way.
The sounders and relays work on backup power as well.

Good to know on the GE. I know the Kiddie / Firex aux relay definitely does not work off the 9 volt trigger line, the interconnected smokes will sound, but the relay will not activate.

 

[Del91574]

The O.P. asked specifically about 120v options, the GE350CX is the only one I am aware of. And probably what I will do when I get around to it. It is very appealing to only have to run 1 or 2 wires vs. having to run wire throughout my whole house and possibly have to do ceiling drywall... blagh...

If your 120V fire system was installed without branching off an existing circuit for the feed, you can remove the 3 conductor feed from your main panel and repurpose the wiring for a compliant LV install, and whether or not it is 2 or 4 wire depends on the topology the original electrician maintained, assuming a 14/3 or similar run. The overall cost involved is replacing the 120V cheapies with real alarm detectors and the related hardware for tandem ring.

While code does allow for the connection, the connections and hardware start moving into very grey areas of legality and methods of properly accomplishing what code mandates,while opening up larger cans of worms that most people aren't prepared to address.