2 wire smoke question

[Edge540]

hello all,
I wired my new construction house a while back and the time has finally come to start installing some items. I wired for smoke detectors in a daisy-chain fashion, planning to use the 2WTA-B and i used 4-conductor wire to do this. Unfortunately, the way the house is laid out "lead" me to split it into 2 zones, meaning I have 5ea detectors on one "zone" and 3 detectors on the second "zone". Both these zones end up at the Elk M1 location. I'm not sure what i was thinking at the time.
My question is, I know one of the "zones" can by connected to J16 on the M1, but can my "zone" 2 be connected to another zone input on the M1, or possibly Z16 on an input expander? or would I need to connect all the detectors and connect to J16?
I am planning to install the reversing relay but unsure if I need one or two.
Hopefully the above doesnt read too much like rambling.
Thanks
Eric

 

[pete_c]

I used one reversing relay (module) and multiple supervisor relays for my OmniProII wiring of smokes. Here is a picture that might help you.

Not sure if the methodology is the same for the M1 though.

It was a learning experience for me. Note the drawing shows two smokes in one zone. Just duplicate it for two separate zones but connect both of the zones to one reversing module.

 

[mustangcoupe]

those are 4 Wire smokes Pete not 2 wire

If he chooses to use 4 wire those can be connected to any elk zone, but for 2 wire those ALL need to be connected to zone 16

 

[mustangcoupe]

My question is, I know one of the "zones" can by connected to J16 on the M1, but can my "zone" 2 be connected to another zone input on the M1, or possibly Z16 on an input expander? or would I need to connect all the detectors and connect to J16?
Hopefully the above doesnt read too much like rambling.
Thanks
Eric

I am not sure about this, but do you need a polarity reversing relay on 2w smokes? I dont remember using it on mine (I may have and just dont remember)

but I would wire from the panel on the red and black pair out to the "IN" on the first smoke in the "chain" then continue using the red and black pair from the "out" terminals to the next smoke, but also splice the other two wires in the cable to the next detector so it bypasses this detector (I will call them green and white) continue this method until you get done the first run.... so all of the detectors are on the red/black pair with green/white pair re spliced to the corosponding color at each detector when you get to the last detector on this "leg" connect the green white to the out terminals, then back at the pannel connect the green/white to the red/black of the 2nd leg, and continue the in/out for the next set of detectors remember to put the correct terminating resistor on the end at the last detector, (so ya I dont think you need a relay only for a 4w sensor) this relay is a different value then the normal zone ones, but should have been included in the elk package. 880 ohms rings a bell for me.

HTH

any questions post back and I can upload a drawing

 

[pete_c]

I misread the statement.

planning to use the 2WTA-B and i used 4-conductor wire to do this.

Its the same for the Omni Pro II 2-wire versus 4 wire smokes and connecitvity to the panel zones. IE: Any for 4-wire and designated for 2-wire.

And yes my references above are only for 4-wire smokes. I thought that you couldn't do multiple zones though with 2-wire smokes?

 

[Edge540]

Thank you very much for the replies. In my explaination I should have said "loops" instead of "zones".

Todd: I understand your wiring explaination. I should have thought of that.
Pete: i used 4 cond. wire at the time, in case i decided to use the 4-wire smokes, but i decided to go with 2-wire as i decided i dont really care "where" the fire was so much as there "was" one.

I was fairly confident there could not be two separate zones if 2-wire smokes were used, but thought i should ask. Wiring as Todd described will make all my smokes on one zone (J16) as it should be. I still seem to think the reversing relay is needed to get all smoke to sound together, but i will worry about this when i actually wire in the M1.

thanks again
eric

 

[Digger]

Thank you very much for the replies. In my explaination I should have said "loops" instead of "zones".

Todd: I understand your wiring explaination. I should have thought of that.
Pete: i used 4 cond. wire at the time, in case i decided to use the 4-wire smokes, but i decided to go with 2-wire as i decided i dont really care "where" the fire was so much as there "was" one.

I was fairly confident there could not be two separate zones if 2-wire smokes were used, but thought i should ask. Wiring as Todd described will make all my smokes on one zone (J16) as it should be. I still seem to think the reversing relay is needed to get all smoke to sound together, but i will worry about this when i actually wire in the M1.

thanks again
eric

To get all of the smokes to sound you do need the reversing module. From the M1 Zone 16 go to the first group of smokes on red and black and come back to the panel on green and white. Then connect those green and white to the green and white of the second group and come back to the panel on the red and black (observing polarity) and connect to the reversing module at the panel. All of your smokes will be on Zone 16, supervised, and will sound together.

Note the second set of detectors will use the green and white wires to the detector bases not the black and red but it will look less confusing at the panel side.

While not perfect it is doable. Your wire colors may differ then what I stated but you get the idea if you draw it out on paper. Also watch your wire length as there is a limitation for line impedance for 2 wire smoke zones. 22 awg is 16.8 ohms per thousand feet (per conductor) and 18 awg is half that (double check me as my memory is going with the long days I am putting in lately).