4 wire smoke alarm

[tmbrown97]

Goldfix/Pitbull - I'm not sure why you're getting touchy - we've all been taking a lot of our time to try to help you. There's nothing wrong with not knowing what you're doing - that's how you learn. My personal concern is that you need to understand more than just connecting wires; you need to understand what those wires do and how they behave if you're going to be working on your alarm panel. The Elk is not a DSC so you can't just move wires and pray for the best. All of us here spent time learning how these things work and gained an understanding of how it all ties together. That's the part you need to work on. This board is a great resource and we help people every day as they're learning. If you weren't getting the reaction you expected, maybe you should look at what you were doing different than most other people who post here.

When we work with you, you have to be our eyes and hands on-site so it's up to you to own that role. If you don't know what something is, either post a picture and ask, or look up model numbers, etc.

Glad you found the mystery smoke detector. Like we said from the start - something didn't make sense... I had a feeling you'd find a real 4-wire smoke somewhere - that's the "right" way someone could've done what you said and had the smoke alarm monitored by the panel.

The other thing about the Elk is that there's a lot more than hooking up wires; you have to understand zone settings, delays, siren usage and cut-offs, and if you go to have it monitored, you need to make sure it's sending the right codes, doesn't false, etc; then there's making sure you have sufficient power and battery for any accessories. There's a lot to this stuff - but it's stuff anyone can learn with some time.

 

[Goldfix]

Yes I do want to learn and trying to do so. I tried connecting the smoke detector but I keep getting a trouble message. I am using the saux section of the m1 and since it's a 4 wire I know I can use any zone. On my current smoke detector the green wire as a resistor going to the yellow wire and these wires are connected as auxiliary. The black is going to the negative and red positive. The model of the smoke detector is system sensor model # 2012ha. Could it be its not compatible?

 

[Del91574]

Those are very oddball smoke detectors, definately wouldn't see them in the US for multiple reasons. I wouldn't personally connect them...the panel is not listed for connection to them, but if you want to risk it and you have a good insurance policy.....

The circuit is NO. The EOLR is wired across the aux terminals with a pair of conductors from the panel only. No power connections from the panel, those units have their own, separate power supply; they're not supposed to be powered from a panel. Dry contact feed to the panel only.

 

[Goldfix]

What model you suggest I get then. Would any from 12 volt 4 wire from aartech do?

 

[jpmargis]

OMG! You can buy whatever, but you just need to change the resistor to 2.2K ohm. You should have some in the ELK M1 package.

Also, your smoke IS powered from the M1.

 

[Del91574]

OMG! You can buy whatever, but you just need to change the resistor to 2.2K ohm. You should have some in the ELK M1 package.

Also, your smoke IS powered from the M1.

I would tread lightly with these smoke detectors and application, the documentation is very contradictory as to it connecting to a FACP or requiring a special 12V standalone power supply. The facts are the units don't perform the same as standard system smoke detectors (self reset) and a few other issues I have with their design in this circumstance, such as no power supervision and device supervision besides the wire connection to the panel.

It's a unit that appears to fit a niche market and foreign (Canada) at that. It appears to allow a person to install tandem ring smokes on a loop that was wired for an alarm panel, without installing an alarm panel, or allow a single dry contact to connect to an alarm panel. It's operation and functionality is in direct contradiction with our fire codes and panels, so as I stated, I would suggest that people think about the application of these detectors to a panel they are not listed for, as well as the huge differences that exist in how these operate in direct contrast to a real system smoke.

 

[jpmargis]

Since Goldfix has three separately connected American Sensors Model 670L-SA360 detectors, I see no problem with connecting a 2012HA to his ELK for both power and alarm.

I do agree that a supervision relay is advised, but his skill level needs to improve a bit before tackling this addition.

 

[Del91574]

Since Goldfix has three separately connected American Sensors Model 670L-SA360 detectors, I see no problem with connecting a 2012HA to his ELK for both power and alarm.

I do agree that a supervision relay is advised, but his skill level needs to improve a bit before tackling this addition.

Agree wholeheartedly about the skillset involved.

The smoke doesn't latch in alarm, so being able to properly power the unit, without switched power, is going to further complicate and compound the installation and function here.

 

[Goldfix]

If I can get instructions with the supervision relay I am willing to learn and do it. I know my skillset level is low but step by step explanation can help.

 

[Del91574]

Really not worth it, since the units and wiring are not supervised on the detector loop, nor do the smokes function like an alarm smoke. As I said, I can't really support these detectors and installation, just too much "wrong" in how they work and are physically wired compared to a system smoke detector and installation.

Canada's inspectorate allows the unit(s) for whatever testing criteria they followed, which I would believe is to facilitate a functional LV fire alarm in a premises when it was wired for such, but no alarm panel is being installed, such as a spec house or catastrophic system failure without replacing the panel, yet still be compliant with codes up there. The fact that it supports a dry contact to an alarm panel is by convenience IMHO, not for a life safety and integrity aspect, to allow someone to connect it to an alarm panel rather than the relay contraptions (which are very grey in legality here) to allow a 120V unit to connect to a FACP.

 

[Goldfix]

Would this model be good to connect with the elk panel: asd200-american-sensors-smoke-detector-12-24v-4-wire-photoelectric

 

[jpmargis]

Why not just change the resistor and be done with it? What problem are you trying to solve?

 

[Goldfix]

Well isn't this model not suggested to be connected with the M1?

 

[jpmargis]

Changing the smoke detector will not solve all of the issues with your installation, so my suggestion is to make the best of what you have. It will work. Save your money for other new features.

 

[newalarm]

Don't smoke detectors need to be changed after a certain time anyway? Is it 10 years? I did not see how old they were... but may be good time to upgrade.