About to purchase Elk M1

[Havok1327]

After a few weeks of reading this and other forums I've decided to go ahead and get an Elk M1. So I've started looking at the various bundles I can purchase and then also the add on modules that I can get as well.

My intention is to use the Elk for Security, HA, Lighting and irrigation control. I currently have very little in the house, so I'll need to purchase all the equipment. I do have the house wired with at least 1 run of cat5 to every room and there are also runs for keypads, 2 cat5 and speaker wire, to a few of the rooms in the house. Along with speakers cuts out in the ceiling in almost all the rooms.

I'm a Systems Administrator by trade, so I do some programming, but nothing major and I'm the type of person that learns by doing, so getting the unit in my hands is tops on my list.

I'm not 100% sure what would be best for my situation so I wanted to get opinions on what I should purchase.

Is it a good idea to get one of the packages or do you think it would be better to stick with just the base unit and add on as needed?

Also what are the must have modules that I should look at?

Thanks!

 

[WayneW]

Unless you live someplace that shipping is horribly expensive or a dealer is cutting you a real good deal for buying a lot at once, just start small and plan on ordering more stuff as you figure out your needs & desires. You need to decide what core brands you want (Elk vs HAI, Nuvo vs Russound, etc), but after that almost everything is expandable as needs and budgets desire.

The XEP is an early-on must-have for the M1 if your budget allows it. The SYS4 kit gives you plenty to learn with.

Welcome to CT!

 

[Lagerhead]

Most likely you will need one or more M1RBs for the sprinklers.

If you haven't yet embarked on a lighting control technology, you are looking at more research and decision.

 

[felixrosbergen]

I anticipated that the 14x14 can would be too small and i wanted recessed keypads (the KP2 version), so i got the ELK-M1GKS and a 42" Leviton can.

It seems most people end up putting the Elk in a bigger can, but quite a few end up then using the 14" can for the battery and power transformer to keep all the high voltage out of the main can.

It's unlikely that the 16 inputs on the main board will be enough and you're likely to need at least 2 keypads so maybe your initiate order should be the kit plus an extra keypad plus input expanded plus siren plus databushub to connect them all up.

Elk prices have recently gone up a bit....i got mine from SetNetPro and got a desent deal.

 

[Havok1327]

Lots of good points, thank you.

I was considering purchasing a bigger enclosure. I didn't think the 14" one would be large enough. I'll add that to the list.

The XEP that's the ethernet module right? If so that was on the short list.

I haven't decided on a lighting control yet, UPB and Zwave were then ones I was looking at.

So it sounds like i need to figure out what pieces I need. Then look at the packages and see if I can get a package, plus the other items.

I'll start a list and then post it and see what you guys think.

 

[Havok1327]

I'm looking through the packages again, besides the looks of the 2 different key pads. Does one have more functionality that the other? Or is it just a matter of person preference?

Thanks.

 

[tmbrown97]

The KP1 has built in speakers, 2 more function buttons, and a built in temperature sensor. All things I would've loved, but looks won out - and I went with the KP2 cuz it looks so much better flush-mounted (you have to buy the flush-mount can)... and for the speaker, the flush-mount can supports a SP12 speaker behind the keypad - that's what I went with.

Also, for the KP2, the M1GSYS4S package is a good way to go - I ended up using the can in the garage for my XOVR and M1RB... And I didn't use the interior speaker - I used a bunch of SP12's instead.

 

[dutchyn]

All things I would've loved, but looks won out - and I went with the KP2 cuz it looks so much better flush-mounted (you have to buy the flush-mount can)... and for the speaker, the flush-mount can supports a SP12 speaker behind the keypad - that's what I went with.

The SP12 provides full voice input/output ... presumably it should be connected to output 1 on the M1 control -- right?

Since the KP has audio via the cat5, presumably the KP2 does also? Or do I misunderstand what the "adjustable beep tone and volume" means versus "piezo sounder"?

Chris D.

 

[wuench]

All things I would've loved, but looks won out - and I went with the KP2 cuz it looks so much better flush-mounted (you have to buy the flush-mount can)... and for the speaker, the flush-mount can supports a SP12 speaker behind the keypad - that's what I went with.

The SP12 provides full voice input/output ... presumably it should be connected to output 1 on the M1 control -- right?

Since the KP has audio via the cat5, presumably the KP2 does also? Or do I misunderstand what the "adjustable beep tone and volume" means versus "piezo sounder"?

Chris D.

You would need to run a pair of wires for the SP12 to your keypad location connected to output 1. The Cat5 won't be enough for a speaker. The box for the KP2 has posts in it made for mounting the SP12 behind it.

The keypad just beeps, the speaker provides voice announcements and alarm sounds. You need to have both the keypads and a speaker (or speakers) mounted somewhere in your home.

I have 3 speakers, 2 Elk 73's and 1 SP12 mounted behind one of my keypads. I ran 1 cat5 and 1 18/2 to my keypad locations. The 18/2 is for the speaker.

 

[Havok1327]

Ah that clarifies things a bit more thanks.

wuench, very nice rack...um that didn't sound right. Nice cable management..how's that? My wife was a bit leery of having all this stuff in the house but I showed her your setup and the neat freak in her loved what you did. So as long as ours looks likes like that I'll be in good with her.

Oh and I just noticed we're not to far apart. We live out in the St. Charles area.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Yes...important to noted that for the speaker behind the PK2 solution you need to run seperate speaker wires!!!!! I didn't and now want this functionaility but have to go fishing through the walls....(not fun)!!!

What size wire should this SP12 be connected with? The Sp12's that i bought didn't come with any documentation. The attahed wire appears to be 22guage or maybe a bit larger.

Somewhat related....i ran 22/4 for my outside siren/speaker which is a RT1. Is that ok or does it need a bigger gauge wire? The attached pigtails to the RT1 appear to be around 18 gauge or so.

I guess the question is how do you determine what size wire you need for what? Is this based on the voltage and the wattage? These are 12W (for SP12) and 20 or 30 watts (cant remeber) for the RT1.

 

[dutchyn]

What size wire should this SP12 be connected with?

I used the AWG to figure that at 12VDC, a 12W speaker is barely over the rating for 22 gauge solid copper wire.

I guess the question is how do you determine what size wire you need for what? Is this based on the voltage and the wattage?

I think so; the calculation is Amps = Watts / Volts; and the AWG gives ampere ratings.

Chris D

 

[tmbrown97]

MavRic - I read a post on here where someone used the extra pair from their Cat5 and had no issues... it doesn't "feel" right, but I'd give it a shot before running another pair if you already have the cat5 run and the walls closed up. 32-Ohm speakers don't have much current if I remember correctly, and that should be fine.

Couldn't hurt to try. Of course, unless you're using that pair for something else.

If running new wires, I'd absolutely add another pair of at least 22/2 - I think we did 18/2 in mine, which is overkill.

 

[felixrosbergen]

Here's an interesting proposition following Todd's suggestion to try and use and extra pair.

For the Cat5 from the Elk DBH to the Keypad there is 2 wires not used (the blue pair if i recall), on the DBH you do conenct those via the RJ45 connector.

On the DBH these are marked as spare looking at the traces on the bottom of the DBH they're all connected up and run to the 'spare' terminal blocks where the wires from the M1 connect.

Would it be possible to run a parallel line from Output 1 (i already have a echo speaker on that one, SP73 i think) to the DBH, connect to these 'spare' terminals and then connect the blue pair at the speaker locations?

I think it should work from a connectivity point of view, but the cat5 is obviously not really sized right and now we'd also be using the traces on the DBH board.

Just though i'd offer it up for suggestions/comments before i go fry my stuff.

 

[dutchyn]

For the Cat5 from the Elk DBH to the Keypad there is 2 wires not used (the blue pair if i recall), on the DBH you do conenct those via the RJ45 connector.
On the DBH these are marked as spare looking at the traces on the bottom of the DBH they're all connected up and run to the 'spare' terminal blocks where the wires from the M1 connect.

Would it be possible to run a parallel line from Output 1 (i already have a echo speaker on that one, SP73 i think) to the DBH, connect to these 'spare' terminals and then connect the blue pair at the speaker locations?

That's useful! I didn't even realize that the DBH has Spare #1 and #2 terminals (I haven't installed it yet ... I'm back at the mounting panels into walls stage). Are all the keypads etc. sharing that each line?

I suspect 22 gauge is just slightly too small ... but the traces are less likely to be a problem. Other traces carry lots more current: the traces that carry the 12VDC 3A current through the relay on output 3, or the power and ground lines on a computer motherboard. So, there is a reasonable possibility that they're okay for this low current -- 12 watts at 12 volts(DC) = 1 amp (22 gauge is rated for 0.97 amp).

Chris D.