Adding 3rd keypad

[BB22]

Hi everybody,

I currently have 2 keypads set up on my M1. I purchased a 3rd keypad for my bedroom, model M1KPAS, but before attempting the installation I was wondering if I need anything else such as the ELK-M1XIN or ELK-M1XOV. My understanding is that both these devices are used to add zones on your M1, but if I still have free zones do I need to buy one of the two?

The wire is already there, all I need to do is open the wall and connect the keypad

 

[RAL]

No, the keypad is a device on the M1's data bus and does not use any zones.  In fact, normal keypads (M1KP/KP2/KP3) add 1 input zone and 1 output to the system that can be connected through the keypad wire harness, although the M1KPAS does not have this feature.
 
The manual for the M1KPAS shows it being wired following a M1XIN, but that's just an example. The M1XIN is not necessary when adding a keypad.
 
When adding the new keypad, you need to make sure that you wire it properly to the data bus and get the data bus termination right.

 

[BB22]

So I can have 3 keypads without additionnal devices to buy

 

[RAL]

So I can have 3 keypads without additionnal devices to buy

 
Yes, no problem with 3 keypads.  The M1 can have up to 16 devices on the data bus.

 

[BB22]

Cool thanks. And they all get connect In the same location on the panel correct?

 

[drvnbysound]

Well, they all connect to the databus, but there are a couple of ways that can be accomplished - the databus directly or via a databus hub.

 

[BB22]

i have 2 keypads already on the data bus and was planning to simply add the 3Rd keypad to the group of wires connect on the data bus keypad section. Is that ok?

 

[mikefamig]

i have 2 keypads already on the data bus and was planning to simply add the 3Rd keypad to the group of wires connect on the data bus keypad section. Is that ok?

Pitbull50
 
You need to understand how devices are connected on the data bus. The data "A" and data "B" are connected in series and the 12 volt power supply to each device is connected in parallel. You must also observe proper termination. See page 12 of the installation manual on instructions and a diagram. It would be helpful if If you could explain your current wiring in better detail.

 

[mikefamig]

It may help you to know that only two devices or data buses are allowed to be attached directly to the M1 control board and many systems only have one device/data-bus connected directly to the control board.
 
In other words, connect a cat5 cable/data-bus to the M1 and then connect your devices in a series on that cable. A second cat5 cable can be connected to the M1 control board and a series of devices can also be attached on that cable/data-bus. No more than two data buses are allowed to connect directly to the control board. There are different categories of device ie input, output, keypad etc that can be attached to the data bus and they are all connected in the same manner. The last device on each end of the data bus must have proper termination.
 
It's not as complicated as it sounds but it would be worth your time to read the instructions in the installation manual.
 
Mike.

 

[geogecko]

Just installed a keypad that will be "in the middle" of one of my data bus runs. Unfortunately, all my prewires are 4 conductor, so it was either get the data bus hub retrofit or run a Cat 5 cable. Fortunately in my 2 story house, the master bedroom didn't have anything above it, and I was able to shove a cable down the wall.

This is how I wired it, which I believe is how the manual suggests.



This keypad will not be EOL terminated, but another keypad that is wired with the 4 conductor cable will be. Inside the ELK box I will connect only one pair of the doubled up wires to this keypad to the ELK "A & B" terminals, the other pair will go out to the second keypad "A & B" wires. All power and ground will be tied to the ELK terminals.

My second data bus will have the ELK wireless transceiver as the middle device, with another keypad terminated EOL as the last device.

I'm a newbie, so feel free to correct any of this if its wrong info.

 

[RAL]

This keypad will not be EOL terminated, but another keypad that is wired with the 4 conductor cable will be. Inside the ELK box I will connect only one pair of the doubled up wires to this keypad to the ELK "A & B" terminals, the other pair will go out to the second keypad "A & B" wires. All power and ground will be tied to the ELK terminals. My second data bus will have the ELK wireless transceiver as the middle device, with another keypad terminated EOL as the last device. I'm a newbie, so feel free to correct any of this if its wrong info.

 
I think you've got it right.

 

[mikefamig]

Yes this looks good but make certain that the terminating jumper is removed from the M1 control and that the last device on each data bus cable does have terminating jumper..
 
The rs-485 data bus only uses four wires, 12v+ 12v- DataA and DataB. The reason that the solid wires are twisted together is to carry DataA out to a device/keypad on one of those wires and then back to it's origin on the second wire. The two striped wires carry DataB from the M1 to the device on one wire and then back again on the other.
 
One of those two wires carries the signal from the M1 to the device/keypad and if that was the only keypad in the system that would be the end of it. But in order to carry the signal on to the next device/keypad on the data bus the second wire carries the signal back to the M1 control box where it is convenient to connect it to another wire that carries the signal from that point on to the next device/keypad on the data bus and so on. The solid colored wires are used for DataA likewise.
 
To sum it up, the devices on the data bus are connected to the DataA and DataB in a series circuit. The brown and brown/white wires are 12v+ and 12v- and devices are connected to this power supply in parallel.
 
Hope htis helps more than confuses, Mike

 

[geogecko]

Exactly how I understood it, had to look at the illustrations in the manual until it made sense.  I also tried using those little crimp on things that the keypads came with.  I did two keypads in that fashon, and then just kept thinking how I didn't like just twisting the wires together and crimping them (with a crimp tool not even made for those)...so out they all came, and they got soldered and shrink wrapped.  I'm able to sleep at night now.  I also thought how messy the ELK control box was going to look with all those giant crimps in there, so that was another turning point...

 

[mikefamig]

Exactly how I understood it, had to look at the illustrations in the manual until it made sense.  I also tried using those little crimp on things that the keypads came with.  I did two keypads in that fashon, and then just kept thinking how I didn't like just twisting the wires together and crimping them (with a crimp tool not even made for those)...so out they all came, and they got soldered and shrink wrapped.  I'm able to sleep at night now.  I also thought how messy the ELK control box was going to look with all those giant crimps in there, so that was another turning point.

 
I learned the hard way to make well soldered splices. I spent months looking for the cause of intermittent problems that turned out to be caused by my poor splices. I used those B connectors that come with the keypad and some 3M crimp connectors that have all been replaced with soldered splices and heat shrink.
 
Mike.

 

[drvnbysound]

The only place I've used the B-connectors has been on garage door sensors, and even then I still strip both wires and twist them before crimping. I've thought about buying a crimper for them, but that's really the only place that I think I'd continue to use them... so I'm passing for now.