alarm monitoring - phone line or internet?

[apostolakisl]

The problem with VOIP has something to do with the conversion algorithm specific to them, not the IP part.

My office phones are handled by a T1 line and the modem converts it to 24 "POTS" lines. My office security runs over that without any special considerations. The T1 has guaranteed and specifically defined bandwidth which probably means a different analog to digital protocol is used.

Same thing with the cell phone. It is digital, but a different algorithm allows it to work.

I used to have voip at home and my fax machine wouldn't work over it. Using my HAI and GSM line faxes do work. Faxes also work on my office T1.

 

[mikejrc]

and thats exactly what I said earlier, VOIP is the problem not the TCP/IP part which is the transport mechanism used for VOIP

according to HAI, copied and pasted: " Note that due to the limitations of cellular service, the HAI C3 does not work with faxes or modems. The HAI C3 will work with regular home telephones, speakerphones, and answering machines."

The HAI approach is great for some people but not for others. It is still based on faking a dial tone to a control panel.

Paying for a cell line plus a monitoring station is not what I am looking for, yes I have AT&T and its 10 bucks to add a line but my plan doesnt have that many minutes, by the time i get a bigger plan there is no difference between doing it the HAI way and paying for similar GSM services like Uplink, Tellular, etc.

 

[apostolakisl]

and thats exactly what I said earlier, VOIP is the problem not the TCP/IP part which is the transport mechanism used for VOIP

according to HAI, copied and pasted: " Note that due to the limitations of cellular service, the HAI C3 does not work with faxes or modems. The HAI C3 will work with regular home telephones, speakerphones, and answering machines."

The HAI approach is great for some people but not for others. It is still based on faking a dial tone to a control panel.

Paying for a cell line plus a monitoring station is not what I am looking for, yes I have AT&T and its 10 bucks to add a line but my plan doesnt have that many minutes, by the time i get a bigger plan there is no difference between doing it the HAI way and paying for similar GSM services like Uplink, Tellular, etc.

This obviously changes with the number of alarms you have and how many "check-ins" your system does, but the minutes are nominal. For me, exactly 1 minute since Jan first according to ATT. I haven't had any false alarms and the single one minute call was its monthly check-in.

 

[mikejrc]

This obviously changes with the number of alarms you have and how many "check-ins" your system does, but the minutes are nominal. For me, exactly 1 minute since Jan first according to ATT. I haven't had any false alarms and the single one minute call was its monthly check-in.

i can see now why it works for you, almost no traffic, it makes sense.

 

[Del91574]

Exactly

Not to knock Alarm Relay, but in dealing with them when I end up servicing some "orphaned/DIY" systems out there, I've found their technical knowledge of the operator/tech on the other end to be lacking and also flat out giving the wrong information because they don't understand the question or application other than what they've had placed in front of them.

The M1G will work with a Sur-gard virtual receiver, or any Sur-gard that has an IP connection, you just need to make sure the XEP has been flashed with the latest and greatest. I have one communicating right next to me at the moment, and it's constantly polled by the CS and is bidirectional and supervised, by both the panel and the CS, which is the "heartbeat" I mentioned prior.

It's foolish to want the data to be converted to another format and sent via packets when the panel and module already do it out of the box.

The main issue at hand is the up-time of the ISP to the house vs. a enterprise platform, as well as the connected hardware having the appropriate backup power, etc.

Given the choice, I'd suggest using all 3 standard formats, digital dialer, TCP/IP and a cell backup, and then work it appropriately, depending on what the overall charge is.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Not to knock Alarm Relay, but in dealing with them when I end up servicing some "orphaned/DIY" systems out there, I've found their technical knowledge of the operator/tech on the other end to be lacking and also flat out giving the wrong information because they don't understand the question or application other than what they've had placed in front of them.

The M1G will work with a Sur-gard virtual receiver, or any Sur-gard that has an IP connection, you just need to make sure the XEP has been flashed with the latest and greatest. I have one communicating right next to me at the moment, and it's constantly polled by the CS and is bidirectional and supervised, by both the panel and the CS, which is the "heartbeat" I mentioned prior.

It's foolish to want the data to be converted to another format and sent via packets when the panel and module already do it out of the box.

The main issue at hand is the up-time of the ISP to the house vs. a enterprise platform, as well as the connected hardware having the appropriate backup power, etc.

Given the choice, I'd suggest using all 3 standard formats, digital dialer, TCP/IP and a cell backup, and then work it appropriately, depending on what the overall charge is.

Do you have recommendations of nationally-accessible Sur-gard IP friendly CS's, or only know of your own local CS that you use? I'd love to get set up using a supervised IP connection when I finally get to wiring up the house (this year, for sure, really!)

 

[Spanky]

The new M1XEP Ethernet software and ELKRP Upload/Download software supports the Surgard IP receiver protocol with programmable supervisory pings. We have found it very reliable.

The HAI C3 as tested works good with the M1. You have to supply your own GSM SIM card and keep the bill paid on it. The C3 uses the voice channel on GSM and sends the Contact ID touchtone signal protocol.

Cheap Ethernet routers can and will lockup. You may want to program Watchdog Rules in the M1 so that if you have an Ethernet failure, you cycle the power on the routers to unlock them. You can do this with a relay or simplier with a powerline or RF switch. The M1 would send out a turn off signal and a few seconds later send a turn on signal. You should add a turn on signal to occur every few minutes to make sure the switch did not get turned off by accident.

 

[BioSehnsucht]

Cheap Ethernet routers can and will lockup. You may want to program Watchdog Rules in the M1 so that if you have an Ethernet failure, you cycle the power on the routers to unlock them. You can do this with a relay or simplier with a powerline or RF switch. The M1 would send out a turn off signal and a few seconds later send a turn on signal. You should add a turn on signal to occur every few minutes to make sure the switch did not get turned off by accident.

Very true. I've personally had trouble with some of the original Linksys pre-wireless routers, and my Motorola BitSurfer cable modem back when I was on cable. The cable modem I automated with an every minute cron job on my Linux machine that would try to contact public DNS servers and if that fails trigger a modem reboot (the internet would die but the modem would be responsive) via it's HTTP interface (basically pushing the "reboot" button). This would fire off a reboot probably once a week.

Currently I don't have any way to automate my FiOS router like this but once I wire up the house properly (before installing an Elk) I'll be switching from using the FiOS supplied Actiontec router (necessary as I'm on MoCA internet right now) and switch to ethernet internet at the NID, and go back to using a proper router. Luckily, the Actiontec's wired connections have never given me trouble (occasionally the wireless loses its mind though).

 

[mbski]

I may be mistaken but I thought Alarm Relay required the purchase of a seperate module to montior over the internet and could NOT monitor by directly communicating the the ELK-M1XEP. I thought that the only CS Receiver that the ELK-M1XEP could be monitored by was the Osborne Hoffman receiver not the Sur-Gard.

Again I may be mistaken as I have not kept up with this for a while now.

Also many CS will not agree to monitor is you are dialing in with a VOIP line.

I have posted on this here. http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18403 I am currently being monitored directly from M1EXP. Thru ALARM RELAY.


Mike Bell

 

[Digger]

I have posted on this here. http://www.cocoontech.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=18403 I am currently being monitored directly from M1EXP. Thru ALARM RELAY.


Mike Bell

They need to update their site as it states:

Gone are the days of relying solely on a land line to monitor your alarm service. Now, alarm signals can be sent over the internet directly to our central station automation systems. Alarm Relay’s Internet Modules ensure virtual “constant connectivity” with our monitoring center enabling our center to instantly detect alarms or outages.

They dont say anything about monitoring directly with the Surgard Receiver for any system.

 

[FloridaMike]

Ok, so I just talked to some lady from AlarmRelay.com and she stated that they do not have the equipment to heartbeat (ping) monitor the Elk M1XEP. Does she not know what she is talking about or what? I tend to believe you guys but don't want to spend money on their service if they do not in fact have ping monitoring. Is there any way I can confirm operation on my end if/when I do decide to go with IP monitoring?

 

[jpmargis]

Stop resurrecting and hijacking two year old threads!  Open your own with an appropriate title..

 

[Ranger Digital]

I take no issue with this resurection. It gives us a basis from which to garner additional info on his post. That said, I dont have an answer for him.

 

[Neurorad]

+1, I prefer resurrections.
 
+1, No answer here either.

 

[tadr]

Ok, so I just talked to some lady from AlarmRelay.com and she stated that they do not have the equipment to heartbeat (ping) monitor the Elk M1XEP. Does she not know what she is talking about or what? I tend to believe you guys but don't want to spend money on their service if they do not in fact have ping monitoring. Is there any way I can confirm operation on my end if/when I do decide to go with IP monitoring?

 
I use AlarmRelay with the XEP. The system is setup to check in once a week at 2am on Sunday or something like that, but there is no other supervisory heartbeat.  If I take down my internet connection for several hours, there is no notification from AlarmRelay.  I need to look into the hearbeat thing, but it is definitely NOT doing that now.