Alarm System Dilemma - DSC, Elk, or ?

[cpeek]

I have an existing DSC alarm system (1555) that I plan on upgrading. Everything is already wired and working (windows/doors, motion, smoke/heat, sirens, etc.), so the main purpose is to put in a system with more zones (split each sensor to a zone), and provide integration for use with whatever automation direction I go.  As I have looked at various automation systems, there seems to be varied support that I can find for security systems - e.g ISY supports Elk, Indigo has good support for DSC but the person doing Elk is no longer able to do it, etc.  I am a Mac guy so one of the automation systems I am strongly considering is Indigo running on an available Mac mini.

As for the alarm, I had settled on using Elk since it was DIY, popular, and looked like a lot of people were using it.  However I saw some things that gave me pause, and started leaning towards a DSC system.  

I am torn now as to what direction to go - DSC, Elk, etc. What alarm system would you recommend for integration, and why?  Is there any reason someone would recommend not using DSC?

 

[dgage]

I'd recommend answering your other question about automation software before you decide on the security system. As you noticed, automation packages have different levels of support for various hardware. And part of your consideration should be what you will use for lighting, home audio, etc. Although this answers your other question, I'll put it here. I chose CQC a few months ago because it supported the lighting package I wanted, which was Lutron's RadioRa 2. I have found CQC to be very good and Dean has been great and always responsive. Pretty impressive support really but CQC definitely requires technical ability to roll your own solution.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

CQC doesn't run on a Mac.

 

[dgage]

Good point and I guess why I didn't answer in the other post.

 

[pete_c]

I am torn now as to what direction to go - DSC, Elk, etc. What alarm system would you recommend for integration, and why?  Is there any reason someone would recommend not using DSC?
 

 
Personally its an apples to oranges comparison.  I think DSC is a good system for security.  I also think that Elk and HAI are good systems for security and automation.  Both ELK and HAI have been doing this for a long time.
 
Having stated the above;  I see folks still today that purchase a checkbook program for their PC with the assumption that it will magically balance their checkbook; when in fact it will not.
 
The DSC panel is more or less built for security only and propietary such that relating to security only it will do a job and does it well.  That said there are many folks today unknowledgable relating to security implementation; alarms et al making an assumption that the software will take care of what they do not know in a "magical" sense.  This is like which came first; chicken or the egg.  That is not a good thing to think of or do relating to a life or saftey issue / concern.
 
I am guessing if you are familiar with the operation of your existing DSC panel then the only reason I would upgrade is to integrate some basic automation into an embedded piece of "do all" hardware.  You do have a bit less options than software but following the guidelines "built" into the embedded combo alarm automation panels it never fails as primarily these are made with security (life and saftey) issues in mind.
 
Personally here leaned a bit towards HAI because of the small footprint; even though my panel / can today is a bit cluttered with daughter expansion boards et al and can be an issue with physically checking / diagnostics things.  That is me though and I didn't really buy the panel because of the software that I use for automation; but rather simply just the footprint and what it did. 
 
IE: today my Russound keypads with direct connects to the Russound zoned amps work about as fast as the serially connected Omnitouch 5.7's but slower than the IP connected Omnitouch 5.7e's which are still faster than custom IP connected touchscreens which are still faster than a propietary software managing both devices and having touchscreens connecting to the mothership; but that is my setup. 
 
Fast is relative though. 

 

[dgage]

I was planning on starting with security and had decided on the HAI until the Leviton change in direction towards DIYers and price increase. Unless Elk starts making some noise as they've been quiet on the updated product front, I'll likely go with a DSC or Ademco security panel (whichever one CQC integrates with better). Elk or HAI would have the automation advantage over a security panel but I'll focus on getting my sw automation package, CQC, on a rock solid Windows system.

David

 

[picta]

I was planning on starting with security and had decided on the HAI until the Leviton change in direction towards DIYers and price increase. Unless Elk starts making some noise as they've been quiet on the updated product front, I'll likely go with a DSC or Ademco security panel (whichever one CQC integrates with better). Elk or HAI would have the automation advantage over a security panel but I'll focus on getting my sw automation package, CQC, on a rock solid Windows system.

David

 
This will probably suffice for a basic HA functionality, but for other common HA tasks you'll need some hardware that will control IO. Elk offers configurable inputs and outputs with integration in addition to on board automation, that combination will be hard to beat. If you ever want to use pulse counters or momentary dry contacts, you won't be able to do it with the software alone.

 

[dgage]

Good point Picta, very good point. I could use WebControl32, Click PLCs, or similar but that would be multiple devices/failure points. Damn it, you were supposed to help Cpeek think about things and there you go bursting my bubble.

 

[picta]

You are welcome

 

[Automate]

I was planning on starting with security and had decided on the HAI until the Leviton change in direction towards DIYers and price increase. Unless Elk starts making some noise as they've been quiet on the updated product front, I'll likely go with a DSC or Ademco security panel (whichever one CQC integrates with better). Elk or HAI would have the automation advantage over a security panel but I'll focus on getting my sw automation package, CQC, on a rock solid Windows system.

David

This will probably suffice for a basic HA functionality, but for other common HA tasks you'll need some hardware that will control IO. Elk offers configurable inputs and outputs with integration in addition to on board automation, that combination will be hard to beat. If you ever want to use pulse counters or momentary dry contacts, you won't be able to do it with the software alone.

 
 
Of cource you would need some hardware but CQC like most any other HA software has the ability to communicate with Input/Ouput hardware.  The difference is you are not limited to a single vendor for this I/O.  CQC can use I/O hardware from Global Cache, Barix/Barionet, Zreo/ZeeBox, DataNAB/Modbus, AccesUI/PCI-IIRO, Carl's Electronics and the ability to use others with new device drivers

 

[dgage]

Automate - you point out one of the reasons I went with CQC, along with Dean's commitment and support. But for something mission critical, like turning off the main water supply if a leak is detected, I want something bullet proof, which Elk has show itself to be. All of the other solutions would require more effort by me and while they could run autonomously, I'd rather something more purpose built. I still plan to use those other devices for other things like IR, distributed AV, weather, irrigation, this/that/the other, etc.

 

[picta]

You just cannot do some fast events inside a software that interfaces with the hardware via serial ports. The serial transmissions have minimum delay requirements and if you want to count pulses on your water meter for example, you better do it inside the hardware controller. The same argument goes for control of momentary contacts, it will be difficult to implement via on/off commands from the software. So you need some I/O hardware that can also apply internal logic, and Elk offers a great combination of both security system and the I/O modules.

 

[Automate]

@dgage  For something critical like a water leak / water valve you could wire them to a separate partition of the alarm panel.  That's what I plan to do with my group buy water value, connect it to my DSC Alarm.

 

[Automate]

You just cannot do some fast events inside a software that interfaces with the hardware via serial ports. The serial transmissions have minimum delay requirements and if you want to count pulses on your water meter for example, you better do it inside the hardware controller. The same argument goes for control of momentary contacts, it will be difficult to implement via on/off commands from the software. So you need some I/O hardware that can also apply internal logic, and Elk offers a great combination of both security system and the I/O modules.

 
The Barix and other I/O modules have built in high speed counters.  The software does not need to see each pulse, just the accumulated value of the counter.