Alright, I'm Ready for automation but..
- Thread starter beaumeri
- Start date
If it were my house, I think I would also want the ability to remove the automation stuff and return it to dumb house configuration. I don't know if touch screens or lumina switches are wired just like a mechanical switch, but I suspect not. I am not convinced that the automation is a big selling point when the time comes, and I suspect it may even scare some potential buyers away.
If you are buying an HAI controller, the two things you absolutely must buy to get it to boot up are a power supply and a console (HAI refers to keypads as "consoles"). The Omni and Lumina controllers use different consoles, so watch out for that. It's also highly recommended that you buy a battery for the controller. If you want it to be able to dial out, you need to get the RJ31X jack kit. If you want to be able to do UPB lighting control, you need a PIM. (Actually, get two; they're cheap, and with two you can leave one connected to your controller, while you use the second one with a PC to run Upstart.)
When ordering your controller, be aware that there are three packaging options. If you are just going to bolt it to the wall, be sure you get the version that comes in its own enclosure. The other two options are a board mounted on a standoff plate for installation in a structured-wiring enclosure, and a bare board without any enclosure.
HAI offers a number of kits (which are always changing) that might save you some money over buying all of these bits individually. I buy most of my HAI stuff through ASIHome; you might want to check their Web site and see what kits they are offering right now. Be aware that before you buy anything through ASIHome, you need to email them with the model numbers of what you want to buy, and they will give you a price that is considerably less than what is shown on the Web site.
When ordering your controller, be aware that there are three packaging options. If you are just going to bolt it to the wall, be sure you get the version that comes in its own enclosure. The other two options are a board mounted on a standoff plate for installation in a structured-wiring enclosure, and a bare board without any enclosure.
HAI offers a number of kits (which are always changing) that might save you some money over buying all of these bits individually. I buy most of my HAI stuff through ASIHome; you might want to check their Web site and see what kits they are offering right now. Be aware that before you buy anything through ASIHome, you need to email them with the model numbers of what you want to buy, and they will give you a price that is considerably less than what is shown on the Web site.
beaumeri
Member
Well in my build the house will remain with all the automation stuff and there will be not turning back without opening walls. I'm not installing any 3 way switches or wiring for it.. I'm simple making sure all switches have a current feed and can control one light circuit. Then I'll program all the 3way with the system. What switch should work together, etc..
Base on my reading so far I'll most likely leave one switch per room visible and the rest will be controlled via touch screen. The one visible switch can be a multi switch or a single one.. But definitely I'll have 1 touch screen per room that can do it all..
I'm hoping to have the least amount of switches/controls on my walls..
Just make sure you think about the ability to resell the house if needed. I realize that you might say you'll never move, but never say never. A fully automated house like you want that is not easily changed back to non-automated functions is going to be much, MUCH harder to sell. Most people don't want all that technology to deal with.
Personally I would stick with either a normal layout for switches were you can control all the major lights from their normal locations, or a full hardwired system where the loads are wired in a central location and controlled by switches in each room. Currently your idea is more of a one-off hybrid system that is going to be tough to change in the future.
Personally I would stick with either a normal layout for switches were you can control all the major lights from their normal locations, or a full hardwired system where the loads are wired in a central location and controlled by switches in each room. Currently your idea is more of a one-off hybrid system that is going to be tough to change in the future.
I build these homes for a living, but we still have to meet code. You have to have a switch where required, for example by outside doors. But, surprisingly, the codes do not require that much lighting to go in a home. So in many rooms, by code you can have NO lights. Since lights are not required, it doesnt matter where we switch them. The key is, when you do put them, they have to be correct, load, wire gauge, etc. Its not really a big deal, but I would at least recommend a real switch or at least multibutton keypad in every room at the traditional switch location. Its what guests and future buyers expect and people know how to use them by common sense.
nick_l
Member
Will you have staircases in your home? long hallways? Will you be able to enter your kitchen from multiple doorways? If the answer to any of these questions is yes, then I don't think your plan is going to fly with the local inspector. I believe code will require to have three way switches in the locations i mentioned (at minimum). It's possible that you will be able to get your local inspector to sign of on your "virtual" three way circuits, but I STRONGLY doubt it.
aside from resale, which someone already mentioned, what happens if you have a power surge or lightning strike that takes out your system and/or your switches? remember these switches are sensative to esd. It wont be fun to go into the closet to turn and off all of your lights while you wait for your insurance company to pay your claim and get the new equipment installed. I know it's not a forgone conclusion that this will happen to you, but I believe its more common than you might think.
My guess is that you will end up with at least one switch at each doorway controlling a ceiling light (or switched plug, depending on the room) and several three way circuits.
One option you could try to get approved is to have those required switches wired in series (ie. one switch in the closet and another by the door). That way you could make a perminent connection in the box by the door and use a blank plate and use the closet switch for your automation system. Then if you go to sell or have troubles, you can reverse the process, and put a manual switch at the door.
Steve
Senior Member
The Insteon demo home in Orlando is wired that way. Banks of switches up high in the closets and minimal keypads around in view. It was funky to say the least. I agree with Brian though. If you are going to go 'non standard', I would at least go with a reputable hardwire/central system otherwise I would go with a traditional wire job. I think you will hate controlling switches via a touchscreen, unless it is a 'dedicated' screen to lighting. The last thing you want is to navigate to the right screen and stuff to find your light and control it. And what happens if the touchscreen or controller goes down? I guess you'll be in the closet alot. If you absolutely go that way, at least make the switch in the closet semi convenient. If you should need to use it or change a switch or whatever you don't want to be climbing ladders or moving all kinds of storage around.
Neurorad
Senior Member
Talk to the AHJ, find out the minimum locations for hardwired 3-ways. Find the guy who will sign off on your inspection.
I agree with Steve - lighting control should primarily be via switches, dimmers, and keypads. Keypads reduce the number of switches and dimmers, not touchscreens. You'll have a keypad in place of a bank of multi-ganged switches.
I don't think it will cost much extra to add a few hardwired 3-ways, where they're required. No problem.
Who is wiring the house?
I agree with Steve - lighting control should primarily be via switches, dimmers, and keypads. Keypads reduce the number of switches and dimmers, not touchscreens. You'll have a keypad in place of a bank of multi-ganged switches.
I don't think it will cost much extra to add a few hardwired 3-ways, where they're required. No problem.
Who is wiring the house?
beaumeri
Member
The contractor who was going to do this was saying not to wire for 3way but simpy bring power to the location of the switches and leave the system take care of the multi way switches..
Since I'm doing the electrical work (My dad being an electrician will be inspecting) I do hard wire 3 way and like you said put keypad instead. I'll still locate my touch screen around the house but will use fewer units.
I'll have to read more on the key pads.. I was under the impression they where only used for the alarm system.
Neurorad
Senior Member
Lighting keypads
http://www.centralite.com/images/Products/...timatePanel.jpg
This is the unreleased Lutron 'Dynamic Keypad':
Lutron said that this concept has been scrapped.
Tabletop keypads are another option:
That last one is the Pico keypad, from Lutron. It's the size of a Decora switch, and can be put on this pedestal, or mounted in a Decora size plate. Mobile. The wallplate hasn't been released yet.
http://www.centralite.com/images/Products/...timatePanel.jpg
This is the unreleased Lutron 'Dynamic Keypad':
Lutron said that this concept has been scrapped.
Tabletop keypads are another option:
That last one is the Pico keypad, from Lutron. It's the size of a Decora switch, and can be put on this pedestal, or mounted in a Decora size plate. Mobile. The wallplate hasn't been released yet.
Before you wire anything, I'd do a bunch of planning and learn as much about the lighting technology you are using. If its UPB, you can do a WHOLE lot of control with just a plain old UPB switch. For example, a single click could turn on one light, a double-click could activate a scene. Unless you have at least 5 or 6 lighting loads in each room, a scene controller in every room is overkill, but you may want to include one somewhere in the house, kitchen for example. Think about how you live. So you want to have to press some button when you enter a room, or just a basic light switch? I myself use motion sensors to control the lights so I almost never have to turn them on but do have to turn them off.
drozwood90
Senior Member
beaumeri
Member
LOL I was always thinking for keypad as the one used for alarm systems.. These I was calling them multi switches.. This being said I was planning to install keypad in most rooms and install the UPB switches with the load in the closets (where they are still fairly accessible, proper hight just in the inside beside the doors)
These I was calling them multi switches.. This being said I was planning to install keypad in most rooms and install the UPB switches with the load in the closets (where they are still fairly accessible, proper hight just in the inside beside the doors)