Are you worried about the Coronavirus?

Are you worried about the Corona Virus

  • Yes

    Votes: 13 54.2%

  • No

    Votes: 8 33.3%

  • Undecided

    Votes: 3 12.5%
  • Total voters
    24
mikefamig said:
is anyone suggesting that the number of cases is a fictitious number made up to make the virus look worse than it is?
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No, not to my knowledge.  I'm just trying to close the gap on my own lack of understanding.
 
mikefamig said:
The new cases that are referred to in my previous link refer to the number of previously unknown cases that were discovered in one single day.
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Still a bit unclear to me, but this sounds like "new cases" would indeed include those that may have been sick and recovered, or asymptomatic, but were never tested before.  So now they are a "new case".  Anyone else see a problem with this?
 
mikefamig said:
is anyone suggesting that the number of cases is a fictitious number made up to make the virus look worse than it is? These numbers are coming from health professionals and I'm putting my money on them.
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Some federal American Health agency (not familiar with US agency names)  was encouraging doctors to just claim COVID-19 on deaths that were from any flu/pneumonia in a 7 page document. A few of the "insulted" doctors had exposed this document to the public online, a month or so ago. The doctors were expressing a lot of disdain, saying "nobody tells them what to put on a death certificate" and "We don't fabricate death reasons", so I doubt any, or many, are even doing it. I don't know if anything like this happened in other countries but of course, the Internet rumour-mill went wild with this BS.
 
IOW: There may be some fudging of the figures but with the high numbers today, what difference could it make, especially since the regular flu/pneumonia season is over.?
 
LarrylLix said:
Some federal American Health agency (not familiar with US agency names)  was encouraging doctors to just claim COVID-19 on deaths that were from any flu/pneumonia in a 7 page document. A few of the "insulted" doctors had exposed this document to the public online, a month or so ago. The doctors were expressing a lot of disdain, saying "nobody tells them what to put on a death certificate" and "We don't fabricate death reasons", so I doubt any, or many, are even doing it. I don't know if anything like this happened in other countries but of course, the Internet rumour-mill went wild with this BS.
 
IOW: There may be some fudging of the figures but with the high numbers today, what difference could it make, especially since the regular flu/pneumonia season is over.?
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Can you link to that document or anything that supports that claim?  I've read a lot of whoppers on the internet.
 
 
carealtor said:
No, not to my knowledge.  I'm just trying to close the gap on my own lack of understanding.
 
 
Still a bit unclear to me, but this sounds like "new cases" would indeed include those that may have been sick and recovered, or asymptomatic, but were never tested before.  So now they are a "new case".  Anyone else see a problem with this?
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I think that the key word is "confirmed". New confirmed cases would be cases that were not previously confirmed. If this number increases for a short period it is not as meaningful as if it increases over a longer length of time. We have not been able to decrease new confirmed cases since February and only have increased and that's enough reason for me to be concerned.
 
Is it a coincidence that the numbers are rising after a few weeks of re-opening cities and states and a few weeks after Memorial day? What ever happened to this thing just disappearing when the weather warms up? How much sick and how much dead is OK and how much is not and who gets to decide?
 
Mike.

I guess that we each get to decide for ourselves.
 
 
I just know that in AZ, another state out-of-control, the lines to get testing exceed 13 hours, and note the temp outside was 110 today. There is no doubt the cases are MUCH higher than actually reported. 
 
LarrylLix said:
Some federal American Health agency (not familiar with US agency names)  was encouraging doctors to just claim COVID-19 on deaths that were from any flu/pneumonia in a 7 page document. A few of the "insulted" doctors had exposed this document to the public online, a month or so ago. The doctors were expressing a lot of disdain, saying "nobody tells them what to put on a death certificate" and "We don't fabricate death reasons", so I doubt any, or many, are even doing it. I don't know if anything like this happened in other countries but of course, the Internet rumour-mill went wild with this BS.
 
IOW: There may be some fudging of the figures but with the high numbers today, what difference could it make, especially since the regular flu/pneumonia season is over.?
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LarryLix
 
In your account above you don't name the agency and you don't name the doctors and it is just anecdotal at best. I'd love to know if it really happened but give me something more to go on.
 
Mike.
 
mikefamig said:
LarryLix
 
In your account above you don't name the agency and you don't name the doctors and it is just anecdotal at best. I'd love to know if it really happened but give me something more to go on.
 
Mike.
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"Some federal American Health agency (not familiar with US agency names)"
 
Again. that is all I have. I couldn't find the several articles last search either. Likely they were pulled so as not to embarrass the powers that be.

 
 
mikefamig said:
LarryLix
 
In your account above you don't name the agency and you don't name the doctors and it is just anecdotal at best. I'd love to know if it really happened but give me something more to go on.
 
Mike.
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I did find this report 
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/03/change-to-death-certificates-could-boost-covid19-counts
 
Originally I saw several posts of the document sent out by the Department of Health encouraging M.E.s to report anything they weren't sure of as COVID-19, without any testing.
 
I believe that the reason that we are having this conversation in the first place is that there is no source of information in this country that isn't biased by advertising dollars and politics. The media is self serving and reckless in their reporting. Keeping this in mind I still have to believe my eyes when I see hospitals loaded beyond capacity with patients (of any kind). I see a shortage of respirators and I see trucks full of dead bodies parked behind hospitals.
 
You know it wouldn't matter what you and I believe if we had some sort of organization that was prepared to deal with a tragedy like this one. Maybe we could call it a government or something like that. What we need is strong honest leadership that can take advantage of the fact that we are the wealthiest nation in the world and use our wealth of resources in the best interest of the people of the United States of America.What we got is crap. We should be able to place our trust in the people that we have entrusted with our health and well being. I no longer trust the FDA to work in our best interest and I no longer trust the EPA to work in our best interest and I'm kinda feeling like we're all screwed.
 
I wish I had your optimism.
 
Mike.
 
LarrylLix said:
I did find this report 
https://www.mprnews.org/story/2020/04/03/change-to-death-certificates-could-boost-covid19-counts
 
Originally I saw several posts of the document sent out by the Department of Health encouraging M.E.s to report anything they weren't sure of as COVID-19, without any testing.
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This is utter bullshit.
 
If anything, the deaths attributed to Covid-19 are undercounted:
 
https://www.economist.com/graphic-detail/2020/04/16/tracking-covid-19-excess-deaths-across-countries
 
The CDC also has an analysis of excess deaths but it is pretty dense:
 
Excess Deaths Associated with COVID-19
 
Bottom line is that there is an increase in the number of deaths well beyond the statistical upper limit.  The excess is greater than the Covid-19 death count.
 
In fact, given the lockdown, we ought to expect that deaths would be DOWN in 2020.  There was a report recently that traffic accidents were down 70% in my municipality.  Social distancing should mean that fewer communicable diseases of all kinds are being passed around.  
 
Craig
 
I am still optimistic and callus here in the midwest.  What will happen will happen. 
 
I do not pay attention to the media or politicians or am a member of any social media group.  
 
Historically and just like many large corporations padding their books to look profitable; hospitals have done similiar.  It is no different.
IE: mortality rates are really just a number in a ledger.
 
There have been both private and public serving hospitals here in the midwest which have never been optimal, never really regulated and never did comply much with saftey regulations.  IE: you avoided the hospital unless you wanted to die.  I worked in the UK and was told there not to get sick or go in any hospital for anything.  Anyways did check them out to satisfy my curiosity.
 
Same in Mexico and most of latin America.  
 
So imagine for a moment a hospital that has never complied much being overwhelmed by a pandemic.  Talk was always there for compliance.
There have always been Federal and State laws relating to this sort of stuff and compliance has always be lackadaisical.
 
Over the years have  been involved in DR and security for large companies and the only care I saw in testing DR and security was when something would happen.  Then after a few months budgets after a disaster would be cut relating to DR and security.  

Here locally they shut down a large urban hospital and moved it 5 miles or so West. Nice and shiny new building but they kept the same management / staff and same compliance as old hospital. I went there twice a few years ago for non emergency stuff and never returned.
 
pete_c said:
I am still optimistic here in the midwest.
 
There have been both private and public serving hospitals here in the midwest which have never been optimal, never really regulated and never did comply much with saftey regulations.  IE: you avoided the hospital unless you wanted to die.  I worked in the UK and was told there not to get sick or go in any hospital for anything.
 
Same in Mexico and most of latin America.
 
So imagine for a moment a hospital that has never complied much being overwhelmed by a pandemic.  Talk was always there for compliance.

Here locally they shut down a large urban hospital and moved it 5 miles or so West. Nice and shiny new building but they kept the same management / staff and same compliance as old hospital. I went there twice a few years ago for non emergency stuff and never returned.
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You have been very lucky. If you had ever really needed a hospital in your life you would appreciate them. They saved mine.
 
Understood Mike.
 
You have mentioned to me what you have been through in the last 30 years.
 
Did stay one night for reconstruction of my leg and ankle (5 hours of drilling, plates and anatomical corrections).  I could not wait to get home the next day.
 
I stayed awake for surgery at the time and watched via a monitor / camera on the leg.  I did not want to be put under.
 
pete_c said:
Understood Mike.
 
You have mentioned to me what you have been through in the last 30 years.
 
Did stay one night for reconstruction of my leg and ankle (5 hours of drilling, plates and anatomical corrections).  I could not wait to get home the next day.
 
I stayed awake for surgery at the time and watched via a monitor / camera on the leg.  I did not want to be put under.
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Oh I completely agree with getting out of there as fast as possible but those guys are priceless when you need them. I have learned to appreciate healthcare people over the years. They are human and have all of the same problems the rest of us humans have, they are fallible. But they want to help people and they do more good than harm. How many of us can say that we want to spend our lives helping other people?
 
I told one surgeon that I was going to start celebrating HIS birthday, I wouldn't be here without his help.
 
Mike.
 
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