[Article] Taking The 'Cloud' Approach Too Far

[electron]

So here is yet another KickStarter project, about a device which will detect when your furnace/heater's flame turn on, allowing you to monitor the heating component of your HVAC system.  It transmits this information to 'the cloud', using a WiFi connection.
 
It looks like they won't be allowing you to access the device/data directly, you HAVE to use their internet based site, which just does some basic calculations, based on parameters you specify.
 
Keep on reading if you are interested in the rest of this short opinion piece.

Click here to view the article

 

[Madcodger]

Dan,

You make a great point, but I suspect these folks are primarily trying to limit their need to provide support to a wide variety of users. Once they go to market, it will likely be much easier to support only users who utilize their web page / interface vs. the many ways we would all elect to use the device (with our many, many questions). It's likely just simple economics for a young, cash-strapped company.

 

[gatchel]

I monitor my boiler burner with a simple "Cube" relay wired in under the honeywell control box on the blower. It is hard wired to an Elk zone. No cloud needed! No RMR either.

 

[electron]

<rant>
With any niche product, the company will always benefit from an active DIY community, as this community helps improve the product.  Just look at the Homeseer community, CQC community, these products are better because of support from their customers.
 
They are limiting their potential customer base significantly, but that's their loss I guess.  They could have easily put in a disclaimer that they won't support any DIY access, but give them access anyways, and use a forum based community to let users exchange ideas.  To me, this project looks like yet another company going after the subscription-via-cloud business model.
 
Eventually the 'cloud-generation customers' will wake up when they find out that nothing in their house works when their internet connection dies.
</rant>

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Madcodger, I don't know how long you have been into home automation, but I can start the long list of past projects where the company had big intentions and are no longer in existence (and this is only in the past 13 years).
 
This sad list includes both hardware and software products, as well as overall integration ideas.
 
You make an excellent point about a company needing to correspond to the 'bottom line' as they do indeed have to make money in the end.
 
The main problem with having your current product tied to the cloud though is, as was mentioned earlier, longevity.
 
One quick example that comes to mind is Belkin's method of implementing their new IP based automation switches.  You can not access these switches via the WiFi in your home, i.e. you HAVE to go to their servers.  While I agree, they do this for the iYuppies (we HAVE to coin that phrase here in our glossary) that just want to switch something on with their iDevice, this product is very susceptible to performing in the far future (IMO).
 
I don't know about the average person, but when I spend big bucks and put the time and effort into installation of switches in my home, I would most likely want them to work for ten plus years (with replacements on failures of course over that long of a time).
 
This is a little different than just throwing away your latest iDevice and getting a new one.
 
I'm no marketing expert, but I would bet if people do indeed want the product to 'just work', if the company DID release the API to that product it might not even matter, as they would just continue to buy/use it.
 
If another company say did indeed create a competitive application, wouldn't this actually help promote that product's hardware sales?
 
Just offering my opinion of course, but I really think this is the wrong way to go; and, unfortunately you see a lot of company's starting to go this way, which will give home automation a bad rap in the future when these products become book ends or charity contributions in the future.

 

[NickTheGreat]

This graphic from the page sums it all up for me
 

 
A bunch of magic garbage nonsense in the middle that I have no control of or input from :blink:

 

[IVB]

dude thats a brilliant pic, i'm totally stealing it for work purposes. We're currently in the midst of determining a hosted(in cloud) vs inhouse, arguments for the cloud are laughable. As if that cloud is auto-magical.

 

[linuxha]

De ja vu ?
 
... The Gnomes, claiming to be business experts, explain their business plan:





Gnomes' three phase business plan

1. Collect Underpants
2.  ?
3. Profit

 

[tmbrown97]

I'm totally with you guys, but I like to play devil's advocate:
 
If you control the device, you have to know and understand networking and know the device's IP address and what to do with it; if it just connects via DHCP and hits a set URL, then support is much easier; it'll also be more likely to work after you bounce from UVerse to XFinity to FIOS to whatever is next and change stock modems/routers and re-IP your home...
 
Also - by connecting to the "cloud" they can ensure automatic firmware updates to keep the hardware current.
 
AND - I think the heart of any business plan is to explain the untapped market to investors and show how they'll get their return back when 200,000 people start paying the $9.99/month subscription fee vs. "We need to find 100,000 people who are savvy enough to make these work on a network and buy 20 switches each in order to break even and then is the market tapped, or will more people become tech savvy? Where's the ongoing income?  Certainly not upgrades!"
 
That said, a smart company IMO would tell the investors what they need to in order to keep the company moving, but also strongly support the DIY crowd by knowing the benefits and allowing some back door options - like what the other TCP/IP light switch is doing; or what the Chumby founders did - knowing the added benefits that would come from having that dedicated tech savvy group helping with the testing, pushing the limits of the hardware; adding interfaces to places you never thought would happen, and pushing the device to their non-technical friends.  We can only hope.

 

[electron]

The problem is that everyone is charging a subscription fee now, which is going to cause some major subscription-fatigue if things don't change IMO.

 

[tmbrown97]

Agreed - I went through that last year when I was paying for hulu, netflix, pandora, rhapsody, directv, and a few others - finally when my Credit Card expired I left them all go too until I decided what I really needed back.

 

[Madcodger]

Hi, guys. Sorry to have missed part of the debate for a few days.

Look, I personally prefer having direct access and strong DIYer support. But in all honesty, I wouldn't build a company that way if I needed large scale consumer interest to make a go of it. We (DIYers) can provide great support, but primarily to each other. We generally fail miserably when it comes to helping someone with almost no tech skills. And as Work2Play notes, the ongoing revenue model is essential to interest investors.

I think the Nest folks have a very good approach to this. The product is excellent, and someone has figured out how to make it work with some automation packages. And I pay nothing for access to it via their servers, which still amazes me. I'd like to see them open up to the DIY community, but I'm guessing they simply don't want the endless questions we would generate. Perhaps "open but no support" is an option, as someone mentioned, for these types of devices.

Bottom line: We may not like it, but selling a piece of hardware plus a fee to use it makes a lot more money than that same hardware and a long series of questions that are answered for free. If you can get people to buy it in the first place, that's the way to go.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

Hi, guys. Sorry to have missed part of the debate for a few days. Look, I personally prefer having direct access and strong DIYer support. But in all honesty, I wouldn't build a company that way if I needed large scale consumer interest to make a go of it. We (DIYers) can provide great support, but primarily to each other. We generally fail miserably when it comes to helping someone with almost no tech skills. And as Work2Play notes, the ongoing revenue model is essential to interest investors. I think the Nest folks have a very good approach to this. The product is excellent, and someone has figured out how to make it work with some automation packages. And I pay nothing for access to it via their servers, which still amazes me. I'd like to see them open up to the DIY community, but I'm guessing they simply don't want the endless questions we would generate. Perhaps "open but no support" is an option, as someone mentioned, for these types of devices. Bottom line: We may not like it, but selling a piece of hardware plus a fee to use it makes a lot more money than that same hardware and a long series of questions that are answered for free. If you can get people to buy it in the first place, that's the way to go.

 
I would have to disagree on a few key points you sate.  I along with others here on this forum really try to help people of ALL skills, beginner to experienced!
 
I can't tell you the number of times on this forum and on the chat I would have to simplify discussions down to very basic levels for green beginners.  These discussions would include statements like 'the 'ohm' symbol is the one on your meter which looks like a horseshoe' to the 'resistor will have multiple color bands and you want the colors, xxx, xxx, xxx', to 'take a close up picture of your system and post it here', etc...
 
I've also seen people actually write the code someone will need and tell them, now open editor xxx and place this under the (sub) line in your script, etc...
 
I also think you can make a go of it by marketing the system needing the cloud approach, but go ahead and release the API also!  You are attracting BOTH kinds of customers as the DIY'ers who would not touch your 'canned' product will now consider it and the ones who don't have that capability would still find it attractive.
 
Of course, yes, this may lead to someone developing a competitive app, but think about it, THEY will STILL need your product to run with it!
 
Of course, I'm not a marketing expert and the above is just my opinion!

 

[sic0048]

Well as far as I can tell, this thing is simply a big magnetic thermometer that talks with the cloud.  I realize they are going after a market that while may have the skill set to stick it to the furnace, doesn't have the skill set to do this themselves.  However device doesn't appear to be very complicated.  I think 80% of CT readers could put a hardwired version in their house for very little expense.
 
I personally wouldn't buy one, not only because I could do it myself, but mainly because of the subscription cost.