Premise Best way to send IR commands out mult GC100 ports

[etc6849]

I've been playing around with moving everything into a closet. Since I don't want to glue two blinkies on the front of everything, I was trying to write code that would send anything received by a GC-IRE and send it out all of my GC100 IR ports. This way, I could point any remote at the GC-IRE and all components would receive the signal, but only the correct component would act (unless you have two items that share the exact remote codes).

I succeded in doing this with the attached module (in rough) that extends the IR Port class of the GC-IRE and IRL.

However, there was a huge issue that I can't figure out how to overcome and it's due to the GC-100 and Premise:
The code works great for non-repetitive commands like Play. The code also works for repetitive commands like volume up, but there is a huge delay as the GC-100 will send the received command volume up to each IR output, then proceed to handle the next event, in this case volume up again. Any ideas? Do most of you guys glue two blinkies on each component and use a Xantech connecting block?

I have used the IR remote module posted on premise before and this could be used to filter each button and send the received IR command to the correct component, but one would have to learn 100's of IR codes and make 100's of buttons.

 

[chucklyons]

I'm not sure I'm following what you are trying to do...or maybe why you have to do it...In my set-up, I have a main closet, where the zpr68, the WHS server running SYS, VCR, 12-ch amp, etc resides. From there I have home runs to the other rooms w/ cat-5 and/or speaker wire, where appropriate. Currently, no GC-100 in the main closet. In my Family Room, I have everything tucked away...Integra Receiver, DSM-520, and cablebox, with a GC-100 and Xantech connecting block. At the plasma, I have Cat-5 running Balun for Component fm the Integra, Cat-5 for sending IR to the GC-100, and a pair of the Cat-5 running from the connecting block to the Plasma. The GC-100 in the Family Room takes the input and controls the devices, using one single output of the IR out into the Xantech connecting block. All devices in the Family Room use the same Transmitter in builder, but with the outputs from the Xantech connecting block. So I have control of all of the devices in the Family Room via SYS or standard IR remote. I now have a GC-100 I will put at the Plasma for serial control and an input locally for IR to the connecting block to control the devices...Is this where you're headed?

 

[Frunple]

Why not just use an IR splitter, Xantech makes a ten port, then just use one GC-100 port to the splitter?
Not sure I understand exactly what the problem is but you say theres a delay because of the gc sending the commands to each port, the splitter would solve that.

 

[123]

I haven't experimented with IR-control of AV gear but it really does sound like an IR splitter would help.

Regarding the module you posted, there's some code in "OnChangeRxData" that can be streamlined. You're taking the received IR code and transmitting it via multiple ports of the GC-100s ... in effect, you've made a software-based IR splitter. The code does this for each port (i.e. 6 times) :

newdata = devices.GlobalCache.GCIRE.IRPort.RxData
devices.GlobalCache.GC100.MultiIO4.IO1.TxData = newdata
devices.GlobalCache.GC100.MultiIO4.IO1.Send = True

The code can be reduced to this:

with devices.GlobalCache.GC100.MultiIO4.IO1
	.TxData = sysevent.newval
	.Send = True
end with

The sysevent object holds the value of whatever has changed. In this example, it will contain RxData's new value (i.e. the IR code).

I doubt the change will improve overall performance (sounds like the GC-100 is the bottleneck) but it will help to clarify the source code.

 

[etc6849]

Everything you guys are saying makes complete sense, too bad I didn't think of it! So my plan is to use one IR output port of the GC-100 plugged into the RX port of an IR splitter. The question then becomes, does Premise let me bind the same IR output port to multiple devices? I think I remember seeing a module that will allow you to bind a single item to multiple items. I'll have to look into this as I've never tried something like that in Premise.

Out of curiousity, what is the limit to using normal headphone splitters? I'm guessing this is ok with 2-3 emitters, but may degrade the voltage signal for 6 emitters?

 

[123]

... does Premise let me bind the same IR output port to multiple devices? ...

Yes.

The attached image shows how ABCReceiver2 is connected. There's another receiver (not shown) called ABCReceiver that is also connected to the UUIRT's Left channel.

Premise lets you do it. How well does it work? I guess you'll let us know.

 

[Frunple]

The question then becomes, does Premise let me bind the same IR output port to multiple devices?

Again, not sure if I completely understand here but why would that even matter??
You're sending out IR signals to all your devices at once and the device that operates with the command sent will respond to it only. Unless you have two or more of the same devices (ie digital set top boxes) in which case all of them will respond. This is where you would need the other outputs on the GC100.
I have most of my devices in a rack and I took the IR diode out of an old remote, mounted it in a one gang blank, then wired it to the "blaster" output on my xantech block which connects to one port on the GC, and it sends commands to all the devices in the rack. The other ports on the GC are wired to room 2, room 3, respectively etc, and pretty much control all devices in those room.
So I think you're asking can one GC port control multiple devices and the answer would be of course, but I may be misunderstanding. Sorry.

 

[etc6849]

Premise does let you bind the same IR output port to multiple devices and it seems to work pretty well!

Thanks everyone

 

[etc6849]

I appreciate everyone's help on this

Attached is the setup I ended up using. I think this is along the lines of what Chuck and Frunple are suggesting. I didn't use the special GC100 to Xantech cables, but used a GC-RG1 taped to a blinkie using black electrical tape to make my own optically isolated cable (made two of these). I did this because initially I ordered the GC-RG1 before I realized I needed an IR receiver that offered CFL/LCD filtering. The GC-RG1 was very unreliable for me due to sunlight and an LCD screen, but works great when taped to an ir emitter and placed in a closet! Thank goodness the GC-RG1's are useful for something. For other newcomers, you could use any IR receiver provided it is compatible with both Xantech and the GC-IRE.

I believe you can also make your own cables to tie the GC-100 to a Xantech block/hub. However, when I initially tried this I believe I was getting ground loops causing interference so I just used the method above which has worked well ever since.

The Xantech 10 way amplified connecting block I bought is found here and works great for this type of application.

 

[123]

Beyond a USB-UIRT, I've never experimented with IR so bear with me if what I'm proposing is simple-minded.

Is there a need for the two transmitter/emitter couplings in your diagram or can they be replaced by direct connections (as shown by the red lines in the attached diagram)? Or is there some sort of protocol conversion that must take place between the GC-100 and the Xantech distribution block?

 

[jimre]

GlobalCache makes adapter cables specifically for GC-100 to Xantech input, and for Xantech output to GC-IRE.

 

[jimre]

I used to use a similar setup for my living room A/V rack, which is normally just controlled by Harmony IR remote to IR reciever target to Xantech splitter block to emitter outputs for each components (same signal goes to all components). I needed to add RS-232 control for my stupid plasma TV (which unfortunately only supported "discrete" commands over RS-232; IR commands were "toggle" only).

So I connected one Xantech output to a GC100 (using GC-IRE and GC-CXG cable), and connected the other GC100 serial port to the plasma TV's RS-232 connector. I setup Premise to send the Plasma TV specific RS-232 strings upon receipt of specific IR input codes (chosen to not interfere with any existing A/V components).

Worked well but was definitely overkill to use Premise in this location, where simple IR control alone should have sufficed (except for the stupid plasma TV's lame IR code support). Didn't need any touch screens or anything here. Eventually for this location, I ended up removing the dependency on Premise and am now using a dedicated IR-to-Serial receiver from Celadon with the necessary pre-programmed codes for my plasma stored onboard.

 

[chucklyons]

I can share your feelings about overkill about the serial control of a plasma that probably only has a couple of functions that are used from time to time (On/Off). In my config, (and I'm finding it more important w/ the iPhone/SmartDevice interface), is that activating content (Cable, in this case) gives me the ability to select CNN or Fox and mSense takes care of the rest, turning on/off the TV, setting the controls and input on the receiver. Not to mention Lights, Thermostats, and the rest.

Most of the time it works well. A SERIAL interface for a Cable box would be delightful! And useful!

 

[jimre]

I can share your feelings about overkill about the serial control of a plasma that probably only has a couple of functions that are used from time to time (On/Off). In my config, (and I'm finding it more important w/ the iPhone/SmartDevice interface), is that activating content (Cable, in this case) gives me the ability to select CNN or Fox and mSense takes care of the rest, turning on/off the TV, setting the controls and input on the receiver. Not to mention Lights, Thermostats, and the rest.

Most of the time it works well. A SERIAL interface for a Cable box would be delightful! And useful!

Off-topic, but I guess I'll have to give your iPhone interface a try, Chuck. I've been using my iPhone in piecemeal fashion around the house: Lutron's iPhone app for lighting control, Apple's Remote for iTunes to select/play music, and various surveillance camera viewers so I can spy on myself. Would be nice to control more things, in a more integrated manner.

 

[etc6849]

123,

You are right, one ought to be able to solder a simple cable up that would work for the following:

Cable A: Xantech Block Output -> GC-IRE (I've done this successfully for many months see attached drawing).

UPDATE: Yes, this cable works for me, but if you make this be sure to NEVER reverse the ends or you'll short the GC-IRE's voltage (+7V to +25V to ground).

Cable B: GC-100 Output -> Xantech Block IR Receiver Input (This did not work for me using similar custom cable I soldered together). I suspect this is due to two things (but didn't measure with an oscilloscope to verify):

1. The Input inpedance may be significantly different than that of a normal blinkie/emitter that you would normally use with a global cache input.
2. Possible ground loops if you connect both cable A and cable B (I suspect number one above far more than number two).

EDIT: To clear after having trouble with cable A and cable B in conjunction (cable A worked fine on its own), I ended up using the extra GC IR Rcvrs I had to tape the emitter/IR rcvr combinations. This has worked very well for me.

If you want to learn more, see the Global Cache cable pinouts found here and here.

These special global cache cables that convert back and forth to Xantech are optically isolated to enhance versatility (if the two are optically isolated, load impedance can be held constant for the GC-100 output, groud loops are avoided altogether etc...). Also optically isolation will protect the expensive GC-100 if the Xantech were to get a +12v fault on the IR signal output going to the GC-IRE and etc... I'm sure if this did happen the GC-100 would be fine after a reboot, but you never know. However, I think the biggest reason for optical isolation is that ground loops can cause a lot of noise.