BIG Home Automation Project 2011

[NewZealandHome]

some nice voltage drop over distance calculator, and other voltage watts amps calculators:

http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/voltageDrop

http://www.supercircuits.com/resources/tools/Volts-Watts-Amps-Converter

 

[NewZealandHome]

Here's a good website describing the frequencies used in wireless home automation. Zwave and Zigbee both use the same underlying standard.

http://sensor-networks.org/index.php?page=0823123150

 

[nzspark]

You are confusing a PC from a decade ago, you must look at the technology placed in front of you, and yes a little bit of history helps, but don't let it blind you for the future...

The line between PC and PLC is now getting very blurry this day in age... ARM based PCs (aka Android and WindowsCE) is now 1.2GHz! and can run full linux/android/windows mobile operating systems... I think the home automation industry is about to get turned on its head.

I call it a PC, you call it a PLC.

PC now run large Flash memory instead of hard drives! is it time to rename this PC as a PLC? or rename PLCs as PCs?

PC now run full I/O systems! is it time to rename this PC as a PLC?

PC now costs $23USD with full 1080p HD and 20 I/O ports! is it time to rename this PC as a PLC?

perhaps we need a new name for these new bread of Super Microcontollers.

yes I'm young, I come to this thread with "zero" preconceptions, I didn't even know home automation existed before starting this thread. Does it stop me from building an awesome home automation system.. nope. it is of course just my new hobby I just started on

Will I continue to point out how old the technology you guys are using.. yep

will I help build a better and brighter future... yep.

Can you point me to this pc, I need a serial line or 5 and 40 12v-24v inputs 20 24v outputs and 16 240v outputs, a dozen analogue inputs would be nice too. All I/Os must be 5Meg isolated. I need it to drive all this if there is a power outage for 48hrs, dont want someone cutting the power and breaking in.

I'm not against you I would buy one if the hardware is there and i dont have to do any coding that requires to much learning.
I hope you build a great product so others can learn. Hell if you can do all this but with a analogue output for each lighting load I will do the 240v wiring for you and sign the C.O.P for free.
If you can build all the above and house it in a nice compact package but also with analogue inputs for all switches you want to dim from and have isolated PWM outputs for all dimming loads, all with a nice UI for programming I will fund the money for you to start a company.

Also with the lighting control like i said earlier you cannot do this yourself so you have to see what you can get local. Also remember if a switch goes you dont want to wait a few days to get a replacement. If you're not taking this advise on the lighting, what was your plan?

 

[nzspark]

Let me just revisit this Wired vs X10 vs 802.15.4

I have a few thoughts.

X10 - out. it plane sucks.. reports of X10 controllers missing events and commands. what sort of system is that.

Wired - people choose wired solution because of the pre-conception that 100mbit LAN runs on wires, so it must be fast, but its not, 9600bps system over RS485. Just like a webpage loading, latency is improved numerous ways... faster browser, faster internet connection, faster dns cache, proximity to the server. Lets look at a lighting system.... relay switching speed, wire communication speed, distance to the switch. Did Google become popular because it paid attention to every millisecond counts.. you bet it did. Where are these specs on home lighting systems... no where. who is reviewing these metrics? no-one. I can count a million website dedicated to speed of webpages loading. We can't even see measurement results of the latency of lighting systems. anyone know of any research into this area, other than mythbusters 0.36s for a light to turn on. what about relay latency. Can I tell the difference between 400ms and 700ms when turning on or off a light? you bet I can. (excluding the time it takes for the filament or leds to shut down, latency in my mind is the time it takes between an action and a reaction, the start of the filament dimming is enough of a reaction to count) Kids of the future might even press the switch twice in this time thinking they hadn't pressed it if the latency reaches 700-800ms, lol.

Why aren't people installing home automation in every new home build. If you don't have home automation you are building a straw hut in my opinion.

Why is it expensive? because there's no competition... or is there? along comes the wireless standard 802.15.4 (the great thing about standards, is that there are soo many to choose from) numerous comms protocols built on this standard (zigbee, zwave) they rely on short range wireless comms. similiar to how your wireless telephone works i.e 2.4Ghz, some on 433Mhz some on 900Mhz

How fast are these standards? any speed you like, zwave is 9600 bps
Cost? $2 per RF chip.
Reliability: Each RF packet includes a checksum for reliable transmissions.

I think that RF lighting is good for retrofit. i.e use 240v converted to 3volt. or use 2x 1.5AA batteries.

I think that RF lighting is good for new house builds. just push cat5e to each light switch. and run some power over it. sure you only need some cheap telephone wire for power, but future proof it with some twisted pairs.


Wired advantages: its here now and its reliable, but nearly all wired solutions are still expensive for home use because of lack of competition.

Wireless: it requires 6 more months for some more advanced opensource microcontroller(PLC? PC?) software (the silicon is ready and in production), in USA Lutron keeps sueing everybody on patent infringement every 5 minutes, they have a patent on wireless inside a switch wallbox.

The future: wireless, because wired solutions are not installed because they were too expensive for 99% of the straw huts built.

yes there are a handful of RF products, but are not under $10 yet. give it a few years.

Wow you still dont understand that 9600bps is all that is needed for a lighting bus speed, You need to get out there and try some systems.
You do understand that electricity runs at the same speed on the same diameter cable no matter what its bit rate. The faster the bus speed the closer the highs and lows need tobe therefor more prone to crosstalk.
You only need more bandwidth if you have more data. once again if a switch only sends wow lets say 128bits so 8 bytes why do you need something that is 10MBs? so you can switch 125000 switches per second? Its not going to make the light turn on any faster is it. the relays is only going to switch as fast as the EMF is strong and the button is going to switch as fast as the fingers will close the contacts, theirs no way around this its physics and it doesnt matter cause its fast enough.

So can you please tell me why you need a high speed bus for lighting. Or do we make it all high speed so we can market it to the young. I can just see it now.
"dude you should upgrade your lighting its not on a 1gig network I can turn my light on 111.11 million times per second and all 24 lights in my house 4.6 million times a second"

 

[NewZealandHome]

"dude you should upgrade your lighting its not on a 1gig network I can turn my light on 111.11 million times per second and all 24 lights in my house 4.6 million times a second"

haha, now I like your thinking

ok I went off worrying about lighting for a little while, the lighting side of it is easy, and I have a plan for that, and it involves writing my own BUS system for this.

I was worried about what technology / cabling to connect the 8 bedrooms up to stream videos(xvid/divx/mkv/dvd), live TV and centralised recording system. So I spent the last 5 weekends designing a system... that connects 8 HDMI TVs to 1 HTPC.

Parts I used:
1x Old PC with PCIe slot = FREE (installed win7 for Windows Media Center 7, can auto record any TV shows with keywords such as "V8", "WRC")
4x 4way F-connector splitter $20
1x PowerPass F-Connector splitter $10
1x 4way DVB-S2 TBS Tuner card = $220 (stream/record 4 different HD satellite channels at once)
1x Quad DVB-T card = $180 (stream/record any number of DVBT channels at once)
8x xbox360 w/ faulty disc drives ($70 each)
1x 16way 1Gigabit switch $180
Cat5e cables and RG6 satellite cables.
1x "DVBLink TVsource" Software $30 (allows 4 HD channels to record at once in media centre 7, does NZ EPG channel guide listing too)
1x "Plex" Software for Windows (allows Android/iPad to browse and watch movies)
1x "Air Video Server" Software for Windows (allows iPad to watch movies)
1x "My Movies 3" free (nice movie cover browsing, trailers, and Allows ipad to change channels and play movie to any TV in the house)
1x "My Channel Logos" Free (allows 10 channels displayed at once and logos in the guide listings)

 

[NewZealandHome]

Watch and record 8 satellite HD channels at once! Using Windows7 Media Centre/xbox or DLNA:TVs;iPad;iPhone;PS3.
DVBLink v4 beta2. Now with 8 tuners.

 

[NewZealandHome]

Update 31 Dec 2011. Well my home build is getting closer... First storey Framing is up. another 6 weeks and the second storey framing will be finished.

I was going to start reselling some of these products that I found, but now I don't really have the time at the moment to write my own software and put together a bundle deal for people, so I'd thought I'd post up all the details in the meantime instead in case others want to start their own automation projects... When my house is finished I'll write some Android software to control it all, and sell that on the Android Market. Android ARM micro-controller boards cost is just $20USD (similar microcontrollers as used in the $49USD Retail Roku TV boxes, you didn't really think they sold them below cost did you?)

Anyway, heres the research I have done back in May 2011...
Subscribe to my blog RSS feed... add the RSS feed to your Web Browser favourites bar, its really cool like that. or add the RSS to your Microsoft Outlook.
http://www.evoscan.com/home/feed
http://www.evoscan.com/home/
http://www.evoscan.com/home/2011/12/31/may-2011-home-automation-technologies/

 

[NewZealandHome]

if you want to switch 25W lights you can use a mosfet relay for $3, they are contactless up to 240VAC, but I think they run a little warm, but not too much.

 

[NewZealandHome]

If using omron or tyco electronics relays $10, you need to add your own protection diode. or you can buy one with a protection diode already built in for $15
https://nz.element14.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1349710
http://nz.element14....jsp?SKU=1571661

 

[InspiredTim]

I would never install the system you are proposing. From no automation or electrical experience to full blown professor in under a year, how did you do it. The reason people install the systems they do, in the setup they do is because they are reliable, robust and are properly integrated. Not just a bunch of different products slapped together. I hope for the best for your installation and should be fine for someone who can continuously work on it, but for an installers point of view, I want to install it and leave. If you want some advice, than I am happy to help.

 

[NewZealandHome]

funny you should say that, because I looked inside some of the "reliable" products you talk about, they just have the same parts. lol. I'm guessing that when its finished, it will be more integrated and reliable than any other system. And it will have the 2012 technology to prove it. not some decade old gear at overpriced prices.

 

[NewZealandHome]

full blown professor in under a year, how did you do it.

I just read a few manufacturer datasheets, pretty straight forward.

 

[NewZealandHome]

Not just a bunch of different products slapped together.

thats all NESS security components are. just a bunch of different factories parts slaped together, none are from the same manufacturer. Isn't that what everyone does in this industry to make it all work? All those parts I suggested above are all suggestions from professional Home Automation Installers in NZ.

 

[InspiredTim]

I don't install ness. I install HAI and thoroughly think it is a great product. Some things need upgrading, but nothing that can't be fixed another way. If you can make the same product that has full integration, that is easy to program, easy for the customer to learn and do minor programming on, and stay stable for more than 2 years, than I will be interested. But until then, I don't want to go through the same course that I have with many products were the constant truck rolls kill you.

 

[NewZealandHome]

today I looked through the side gaps of some Clipsal Cbus din rail units with a bright light. I have really good eyesight... its from playing lots of battlefield2 on the PC

Clipsal Cbus are using this relay inside for each switch:
Tyco SCHRACK 12VDC 250VAC 10A and they are the same brand and size and model as these ones that I already bought... in the picture below you can also see the brand SCHRACK on top.
http://nz.element14.com/jsp/search/productdetail.jsp?SKU=1349710
http://www.cbussales.com/product_info.php?cPath=148_22_33_58&products_id=103
http://www.cleverhome.com.au/manuals/Clipsal-C-Bus-5508RVF-5512RVF-Voltage-Free-Relay-Installation.pdf

And it turns out I had already bought some of those relays, because I looked through a lot of relay datasheets and I had already decided they were the best ones.. looks like I have similiar tastes as the Cbus engineers