Building a new house

[tmbrown97]

Hopefully others will chime in... I know the "packaged" systems seem to be things like Control4, Colorado vNet, I think HomeSeer has an appliance and options; of course you can get into Crestron and AMX. HAI also has some advantages here in that they have a pretty complete ecosystem with touchscreens, audio, security, lighting, HVAC - all in a plug & play kinda package.

Unfortunately many of those like Control4 are not at all DIY friendly, which is why I suspect people around here don't use it much. It seems like the common ones around here are things like Premise, CQC, HomeSeer, Elve - all software solutions, and you tie all your systems together with it.

I know one of the other packages has a TV control app, but I can't remember which one right now.

 

[cctv]

I like to keep my systems separate. Is it just me?

For alarm I use Napco or Ademco.
For structured wiring I use Leviton enclosures with Cat5e or Cat6.

 

[easytimhal]

I'm going to put it all in one place, a place I call the wiring station it will be in the garage.

At one time this enterainment center made by Hooker cost $950.00
there is a big glut of these on the market right now and you can buy one very cheap. The entertaiment
center is a thing of the past. I bought this unit for $80.00


Electric, 120 volts
Cat-5E (may be separated into phone/network/other)
Audio - 12 speakers for 6 zones.
Audio Router by Aton - to control 6 rooms w/ RF remote and IR http://www.atonhome.com/DLA6Room.html
Audio Amplifier/Receiver
RG6- video distribution amplifier
Alarm - uses an UPLINK transmitter and it has a battery backup that transmits to a cell tower, no phone wires to cut here. http://www.uplink.com/
IR - for each room to control volume
Cameras - 3 PELCO III domes for 3 PELCO DD53CBW and Video Server (AXIS 241Q) - for 4 camera inputs
Low voltage - 12 VDC - LED yard lights, 24VAC camera power for 3 Pelco Domes
LED lighting, LED Lanai lights, LED Pavers, LED lighted Address, LEDs in tray ceiling in M.bedroom LED lights in M. Bath each one one these is a seperate circuit, each will have its own terminal block.
All of the LED lights will be controlled with Insteon, this will all be in the wiring station also.

Another picture of wiring station
http://stuff.led-guy.com/station.jpg

 

[tmbrown97]

I'll be interested in seeing your final result!

 

[easytimhal]

I'll be interested in seeing your final result!

What I'm doing here is much bigger than anything the Leviton Structured Panels can provide.

I need a place for my Audio Router, this will have a lot of wires hooked to it. http://www.atonhome.com/DLA6Room.html

I also need to control a large amount of LED lighting, with the LED lighting any part of it can be set to keep beat with the music and it can be set to any color, Leviton is no where there with this.
The LEDs will be tide to insteon and will come on every night 1/2 before sunset and off at midnight, all with remote override if needed.

I don't know of a better way to do this, A wiring cabinet makes the most sense to me, I'm open to any other ideas

 

[drvnbysound]

Quote edited for space...

I'm using lots insteon and ISY-99 for automation, I will have an alarm installed, most likely most will be wireless (MAYBE) hooking the alarm system to ELK-M1 just doesn't seem worth it yet to me

I don't understand what you meant by the above - hooking the alarm system to ELK-M1...

Do you realize that Elk is a home security panel/alarm system? Also, if you are in the building process, it is certainly worth it, IMO, to have as many sensors hard wired as possible.

 

[drvnbysound]

What I'm doing here is much bigger than anything the Leviton Structured Panels can provide.

I need a place for my Audio Router, this will have a lot of wires hooked to it. http://www.atonhome.com/DLA6Room.html

I also need to control a large amount of LED lighting, with the LED lighting any part of it can be set to keep beat with the music and it can be set to any color, Leviton is no where there with this.
The LEDs will be tide to insteon and will come on every night 1/2 before sunset and off at midnight, all with remote override if needed.

I don't know of a better way to do this, I wiring cabinet makes the most sense to me, I'm open to any other ideas

I agree that Leviton panels aren't suited for controllable audio/video distribution systems. In those cases, many people go with A/V racks. One company I would suggest is Middle Atlantic:

http://www.middleatlantic.com/

 

[easytimhal]

Quote edited for space...


I don't understand what you meant by the above - hooking the alarm system to ELK-M1...

Do you realize that Elk is a home security panel/alarm system? Also, if you are in the building process, it is certainly worth it, IMO, to have as many sensors hard wired as possible.

There are a couple of the things important to me with an alarm system, one is the way it reports, if its using phone wires, those wires can be cut, also if there is a big storm and phone service will go down and your alarm system becomes worthless, wires down due to a storm can also last for days. The second thing is if you have several motion detectors, the system becomes hard to beat, nothing beats a motion detector.

Hard wiring a bunch of switches doesn't make sense to me, I'm just not sold on a ELK-MI I already can control my cameras and my home automation using my Iphone right now, This is just my opinion of ELK
I don't mean anything bad here by that, its just the way I feel about ELK.

I'm not impressed enough by ELK yet to dive in, maybe in time.

 

[tmbrown97]

It seems like you need to study up on security and general, and the Elk specifically. The Elk (And HAI) are basically some of the most advanced security systems on the market.

When it comes to security, you should have a layered protection scheme. The goal is detection at the earliest possible chance - preferably before they even get in... for an extreme example:

1. Outdoor motions/detectors - let the person know you detect them before they even attempt entry; also signs warning of the security system.
2. Security screens - before someone even damages a window or violates an entry - the second they cut a screen or try to remove it, the alarm is triggered.
3. Glass Breaks and door/window contacts - the second someone breaks a window or jimmy's it open - the alarm is triggered - again, they leave before they're even inside.
4. The last barrier is once they're inside - motion detectors... but if you're just now catching them, it's a bit late - they may choose to grab the laptop sitting on the table on their way out; or they may panic and shoot someone... this is the worst place for them to be.
5. Protection on specific valuables; asset protection sensors; contacts on certain interior doors or on your safe, etc... in case they made it past all the others, or they're a normally trusted person who's in when the main security system is off.

That was just an example - and many people won't use all those layers - but clearly relying on motions is just naive.

As for wired vs. wireless - well, wireless costs 10x as much and requires maintenance; wired doesn't - but wired can only really be done during the new construction phase.

Communication? The Elk has more options - it can be internet, cellular (multiple methods) or POTS or any combination of them. If done right it'll be able to monitor each of the options for lost connectivity; and an Uplink 2500 gives a great cellular connection.

And your profile says you use Insteon - the nice thing about combining your security system into your home automation is removing the control aspect - you shouldn't need to use your phone! By combining the sensors your security system already has with lighting control, you can do things like:

1. Turn on all the lights if there's a burglar alarm; turn them all to 30% if there's a fire alarm
2. If coming home to a dark house, it can turn the lights on to light your path to the main area of the house and/or the main keypad so you don't even have to turn on light switches
3. when someone walks out the front door at night or rings your doorbell after your outside lights have turned off, it can turn them back on automatically.
4. open the back door to take the trash out? It lights a path around the back of the house for you.
5. motion sensors to turn on lights for the kids if they get out of bed, or around the stairs

The list goes on - all it takes is some time reading to see some of the cool ideas people have had around here, and many love tying in an Elk to get a bunch of inputs and outputs as well as the security contact and motion sensors integrated into a HA system - makes the options nearly limitless.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

I biggest two things with an alarm system is the way it reports, if its using phone wires, those wires can be cut. The second thing is if you have several motion detectors, the system becomes hard to beat.
Hard wiring a bunch of switches doesn't make sense to me, I'm just not sold on a ELK-MI I already can control my cameras and my home automation using my Iphone right now, This is just my opinion of ELK
I don't mean anything bad here by that, its just the way I feel about ELK.

I'm not impressed enough by ELK yet to dive in, maybe in time.

Not sure your methodology of security protection is adequate. As stated above, you should have layers. Also, you want the security system to activate immediately on anyone trying to enter the premises (i.e. you don't wait till someone is in the house relying on motion detectors).

The Elk M1 is a security system first, an automation aid second. I do agree that with your listed solution above, the Elk M1 (or any other security panel) is not for you...

As far as notification with 'wires' there are plenty of posts here that show how to use cellular as a backup.

 

[BraveSirRobbin]

If you need help on cellular btw as an option for reporting, please let us know as I stated before, there are several posts here on that subject.

 

[easytimhal]

I have been using wireless motion detectors for 13 years now, there is a small amount of extra care changing batteries, but its not that big of a deal.

The batteries are now pretty cheap now, you are exactly right about hard wiring them in during construction, its a great way to go.

If someone cuts a hole in the side of your house to gain access, switches on the doors mean nothing.
Siding is thin and insulation is easy to remove. I have thoughts of using a super hot knife to cut the hole in the siding, then removing the insulation
and kicking a hole in the drywall to gain access. Has anyone invented a battery powered hot knife yet or maybe I can just plug it into the
outlet under the porch light or use the outlet under your deck. ( I DIDN"T SAY USE A CHAINSAW) The newer houses are vinyl siding with a sheet
insulated sheathing board under that, it is a rigid polyisocyanurate foam board insulation with a foil facer on both sides used for wall insulaiton. This how my house
has been made, its just 13 years old.


I use to install alarms back in 1970, so alarms have always been on my mind, if you want a good alarm your need to think like a Desperate Burgular
and, nobody is going to broadcast what works

I will most likely hard wire the motion detectors, its the best thing to use.

What I'm getting at is if your alarm is hooked to phone lines and/or your house is new where you have something of real value you better rethink what your doing,
think like a burgular and don't just wire up a bunch of door and window switches, I know the ELK is cool, but don't get caught up in the wow factor, make sure you have
several motion detectors, even some motion detectors that will turn on lights and you need to make sure you have a foolproof way to get the alarm message sent to the alarm monitoring company.

 

[easytimhal]

If you need help on cellular btw as an option for reporting, please let us know as I stated before, there are several posts here on that subject.

I have been using cellular for 9 years now, (UPLINK)

THANK YOU for being so helpful , have a good day

 

[tmbrown97]

Have you checked statistics? How often do people cut through the side of a house to gain entry? Typical burglaries are smash & grab unless people know you have something of high value that they're targeting. The chainsaw through the side of the house is extremely rare - yet should that occur, that's where the motion sensors or pressure sensors in key parts of the house, or asset protection sensors come into play. I covered that in the "layers of protection".

Wireless motion detectors have a major disadvantage over wired when using them for automation; wireless ones will transmit once then shut down for a predetermined amount of time to conserve battery; they also take longer to notice motion and transmit it to the panel. They're just fine for security though.

Maybe it's me - but I'm having trouble following what you're getting at with a lot of this other stuff.

You should check out the Blog section - that's a great place to detail out what you're doing if you're not actively looking for feedback or asking questions.

 

[easytimhal]

Have you checked statistics? How often do people cut through the side of a house to gain entry? Typical burglaries are smash & grab unless people know you have something of high value that they're targeting. The chainsaw through the side of the house is extremely rare - yet should that occur, that's where the motion sensors or pressure sensors in key parts of the house, or asset protection sensors come into play. I covered that in the "layers of protection".

Wireless motion detectors have a major disadvantage over wired when using them for automation; wireless ones will transmit once then shut down for a predetermined amount of time to conserve battery; they also take longer to notice motion and transmit it to the panel. They're just fine for security though.

Maybe it's me - but I'm having trouble following what you're getting at with a lot of this other stuff.

You should check out the Blog section - that's a great place to detail out what you're doing if you're not actively looking for feedback or asking questions.

Thank you, for your input, thanks for the blog section idea

I'm a different beat I know, so don't let my upset you. My first whole home alarm I installed was in 1970 I worked for an alarm company named Potter Electric they are still in business today. I have always taken the out of the box approach when it comes to thinking about breaking into things.